Rapid Conscription rework proposal (with implementation)

ostrruppen are simply not worth it they come after minute 4. Their base stats make bleed too much.

On could try replacing them with a "new unit" that had some utility like incendiary grenades.

EDIT: Typos.

Ah, yea less OP but still new vetted units.

Many solutions

This could work, but should the received squad be bound to lost units? I mean; the game works around units preservation but this ability now suggest the complete opposite (other than accidental wipes/losses).
Proposal; what if you get that squad at the start and the rest of the passive's during 1 minute in exchange for a little price increase?

Brings a little more certainty to "what do you get by activating the ability" and "what has this commander to offer".

Many solutions could work, but I feel the simplest way to fix it is by just decreasing the optimal manpower ratio, then giving some secondary benefits and earlier timing to the ability, for example:

- Only 1 squad given for both abilities after losing 6 models.
- Now decreases production time for new units by 33% while active.
- Now decreases reinforce times for squads by 33% while active.
- CP requirement from 6 to 3.
- 80 muni for Osttruppen variant, 100 muni for Conscript variant.

Then so Osttruppen aren't worthless at that timing, they could get stock sandbags and no T4 lock on their lmg (so upgradeable from the get-go). Conscripts would do fine.

These changes keep timing important, as to get the most out of it you'd activate it while producing your shock unit or if lots of squads are reinforcing in base or both.

I agree that such abilities should arrive earlier. Not sure if 100 munitions is the right price for decrease in reinforcement and production time though, as it's hard to evaluate such esoteric abilities, kind of like Radio Silence or Radio Intercept.

This could work, but should the received squad be bound to lost units? I mean; the game works around units preservation but this ability now suggest the complete opposite (other than accidental wipes/losses).

Proposal; what if you get that squad at the start and the rest of the passive's during 1 minute in exchange for a little price increase?

Brings a little more certainty to "what do you get by activating the ability" and "what has this commander to offer".

The player has to put some effort and timing into using the ability at the optimal time while still losing those 6 models in an efficient manner.

That's not as high as the barrier of 12 to 15 models in live, if you want to have all squads, but still there. No barrier at all would be kinda bland design. Even with this low barrier of 6, it still provides some counterplay for opponent if it causes slightly more reckless play to get there, which is a good thing.

Like ostruppen are something you don't get stock, so are conscripts with DP28's?

I'm not sure what you are saying here. You cannot get ostroppen of any variation except through doctrine. Cons are one of the most readily available infantry units in the game, so a doctrinal ability that gives you stock units, at an unfavorable return rate no less is automatically silly as if you need em you'll just build em. At least ostroppen are something new (even if they too are not worth it atm)

Reduction of CPs might help a lot too. 6cp is awfully late for no vet infantry....

But again, that combined with coming pre upgraded might be interesting. You would pay more muni and less manpower in exchange for more manpower and less muni outcome which COULD have a niche if you are bleeding heavily but have the munitions points or something.

If memory serves both rapid conscription commanders also have ppshs so you could use the ppshs on the cons you build and get 7 man replacements.
If the timing is right it could give earlier access to 7 man cons and taking losses is in line with the ppsh cons role.

Aren't there any unused models hanging around in the files?

Weapon Crew models, OStruppen or even Volks would probably be the most fitting for "Rapidly conscripted" troops... though of course Volk models shouldn't really enter the OST unit set.

There are sadly no "unused" models from what I remember when I last checked the files.

The only ones that would technically maybe even remotely fit that category as far as infantry is concerned are the heavy weapon crew models which you can see on the Pak 40, Pak 43, LefH and so forth.

Only 2 very nitpicky problems are that they have the red shoulder patch which means that they belong to the artillery branch of the German Armed Forces back then which only a few people that are interested in the history of these units would know and of course, only if they zoom in enough.

The other is of course that they lack the Osttruppen's cool ass backpack or whatever it's called.

So really if we just had Osttruppen models with the stahlhelm it'd be perfect.

But still the weapon crew models still somewhat fit the whole "relief" infantry narrative as a cheap squad to replace the combat losses, problem is of course that they then overlap with the Osttruppen altho I'd argue that at this point they've become a mainline infantry replacement for the Grenadiers with fading effectiveness as the match continues, while a new maybe 5 man squad that's not as cheap as them that could be maybe effective also after the halfway point of the game could be useful.

If given a unique upgrade like let's say a Panzerbüche 39 package they could be considered as German Allied infantry such as the Hungarians, Romanians, Italians and so forth that also fought on the Eastern Front.

Edit:

I found my other topic talking about it with pictures from my very old mod where I replaced the Grenadier models with the ones I'm talking about:

- Running to a trench
- Hanging around a trench
- In a Church

But still the weapon crew models still somewhat fit the whole "relief" infantry narrative as a cheap squad to replace the combat losses, problem is of course that they then overlap with the Osttruppen altho I'd argue that at this point they've become a mainline infantry replacement for the Grenadiers with fading effectiveness as the match continues, while a new maybe 5 man squad that's not as cheap as them that could be maybe effective also after the halfway point of the game could be useful.

I think that putting a unique squad behind replacement ability is frankly a waste. Finding middle ground between Grenadiers and Ostruppen would not be an easy task either, especially since they would be arriving later than Ostruppen.

I think that putting a unique squad behind replacement ability is frankly a waste. Finding middle ground between Grenadiers and Ostruppen would not be an easy task either, especially since they would be arriving later than Ostruppen.

The idea of the squad is to act as a reinforcement option through merging, the squad doesnt really need to be combat capable, or even really have any abilities. It's just there to merge into other squads.

The idea of the squad is to act as a reinforcement option through merging, the squad doesnt really need to be combat capable, or even really have any abilities. It's just there to merge into other squads.

I was talking about what A. Soldier had in mind, so not just a merge-squad.

I think that putting a unique squad behind replacement ability is frankly a waste. Finding middle ground between Grenadiers and Ostruppen would not be an easy task either, especially since they would be arriving later than Ostruppen.

And I agree with you on that.

I'm just throwing it out there as an idea.

But also if not possible to "fix" Relief infantry it can maybe just be entirely replaced by a new call in squad to bring in something unique to the commanders which currently have it and are un-appealing compared to some others.

I'm not sure what you mean

Well, you pointed out that Ostruppen are not stock units. Receiving Ostruppen is therefor 'special' in your stock army. There is no commander with a conscripts LMG upgrade in the game, therefor Conscripts with DP28's are just as 'special'. However; later jibberjabber proposed a different approach which is easier to achieve and likely easier to balance.

some effort

Agree on this, yesterday evening I noted that losing 6 models is actually quite easy to achieve without the intend to do so (just 1 push that I won, lost 8 models across 5 squads).

I played a mod (made by GGTheMachine) where Rapid Conscription was even cheaper. But it's still something that goes against COH mechanics.

Tbh I change my mind, this ability needs a redesign not a buff.

Maybe passive ability for conscripts to build faster? Or buy a conscript with munitions

Well, you pointed out that Ostruppen are not stock units. Receiving Ostruppen is therefor 'special' in your stock army. There is no commander with a conscripts LMG upgrade in the game, therefor Conscripts with DP28's are just as 'special'. However; later jibberjabber proposed a different approach which is easier to achieve and likely easier to balance.

OK I get it now. I think a weapon upgrade is different than a new unit. Ideally doctrinal abilities offer something new or access to something you don't have access to.
Ostroppen are not in the core and there is nothing similar.
Cons are run of the mill, and while dps are new, I don't think they fit so much. Cons are not supposed to have centralized DPS because with their tankyness it could be too powerful. This is also why they only have 1 weapon slot.

7 man grants the ability to capture and reinforce a decrewed weapon with 1 squad and not lose it. Coming earlier in an attrition game could prove valuable and in line with the essence of the ability.

There may well be easier ways to go about making both these abilities worth while, but Id really like to look at making them viable without spoiling their essence.
The units coming pre upgraded gives them a bit of attraction late game if needed but if the timing is right they can find value when unlocked as well, while the infantry game is still aggressive.