What the PRO's think of COH2

I'm wondering why so many Pros, still playing the "garbage/broken" game ^^ anyway...but the facts are completely true

Yea most of the things mentioned are true, but I still played the game in hope that it would get better. The breaking point came with this new patch (funny enough they call it turning point).

First, I vote Holy Hammer for prez for coming out openly slamming the game hard.

I'm wondering why so many Pros, still playing the "garbage/broken" game ^^ anyway...but the facts are completely true

Many "pros" aren't. I don't consider myself a pr0, but I absolutely hate coh2. It's just so random. Skill, micro, attention means very little. Just FotM docs and units raping everything, bad meta all around, and my god, the game is not visually appealing at all, even maxed out. The new pay to win system is just the icing on the cake.


I was saying a lot of these complaints everyone is voicing now during the alpha and beta stages, and everyone just said "chill, it's just beta"....we're months and months into it, look around, it's only even more broken than it was.

where is your RNG God now?

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=&showtopic=937284&view=findpost&p=9581034

I think this post about sums it up. The game sucks and in an insult to the original not to mention any RTS game.

Im indeed left wondering why, if Hoyhammer thinks the game was dead on release, he played it like there was no tomorrow.

Nevertheless I agree with most points made in this topic. From what I understand vCoH was made by a different team than the one that made the expansion and introduced the PE and Brits. As we all know, those factions were nowhere near as well designed as the original US and Wehr factions.

Now rumor has it it was this team that did CoH2 as well. No wonder it turned out the way it did.

Some of the design decisions they made such as blizzards are just so weird. The first time I heard about how blizzards would stall the game, and you would have to make campfires I already felt it was a horribly idea. Slowing down a game and making players take care of their units like it's the sims: wtf? And in practice it turned out to be just like that: one big WTF.

Same goes for hammering (pun intended) the game with more and more commanders, one being even more broken than the other. Or the retarded bulletin system. All things that any sensible player would consider a bad idea, but that made it in the final product regardless.

All in all these are indications this game was made by people that just werent as insightful as the people that made vCoH. Talent was at Relic, but left. This is what were left with.

Nevertheless I agree with most points made in this topic. From what I understand vCoH was made by a different team than the one that made the expansion and introduced the PE and Brits. As we all know, those factions were nowhere near as well designed as the original US and Wehr factions.

Now rumor has it it was this team that did CoH2 as well. No wonder it turned out the way it did.

Yup.

Im indeed left wondering why, if Hoyhammer thinks the game was dead on release, he played it like there was no tomorrow.

Nevertheless I agree with most points made in this topic. From what I understand vCoH was made by a different team than the one that made the expansion and introduced the PE and Brits. As we all know, those factions were nowhere near as well designed as the original US and Wehr factions.

Now rumor has it it was this team that did CoH2 as well. No wonder it turned out the way it did.

Some of the design decisions they made such as blizzards are just so weird. The first time I heard about how blizzards would stall the game, and you would have to make campfires I already felt it was a horribly idea. Slowing down a game and making players take care of their units like it's the sims: wtf? And in practice it turned out to be just like that: one big WTF.

Same goes for hammering (pun intended) the game with more and more commanders, one being even more broken than the other. Or the retarded bulletin system. All things that any sensible player would consider a bad idea, but that made it in the final product regardless.

All in all these are indications this game was made by people that just werent as insightful as the people that made vCoH. Talent was at Relic, but left. This is what were left with.

That's what I have been trying to find out for some time now, were the people responsible for making COH1 still working in the company or did they leave? Because COH1 design fundamentals displayed tremendous amount of passion and attention to detail on part of it's developers. That can't be said about COH2 developers.

+1 to xHoLyHammerx and +1 to NoLuckyStrike

the game is complete garbage and if you find the game unfun to play to the point you don't feel like playing it any more, then it is garbage plain and simple. So don't tell me it is not garbage when even you will not play it.

It is not a solid follow up to coh1 and just because you guys lay in the same bed as relic and this site would be useless without the game, you should not be backing them when you clearly say it is not fun and you do not feel like playing it.

last time i learned about WWII the Germans was the aggressor not the Russians.

I thought the game was on a decent path then this whole mess with turning point patch came along and now the game is back to the stone ages, unfun, and not worth playing in its current state. It is not just garbage it is garbage that you want to take to the curb a week before the garbage man comes it is so bad.

the unit response was bad and rng was very bad but this patch made everything bad. I can not explain how disgusted with relic i am right now, except to say I wont be playing until this is patched correctly and if you release more dlc before it is fixed, i will just uninstall and never buy another sega/relic product again.

This current product does not belong in RTS category not even close because there is no strategy involved! Just blob till the last man standing, great concept!

I may not be pro but i am in top 20 4v4 Russians and top 30 4v4 Germans and have over 1200 hours logged since release.

I got my moneys worth prior to the failing point patch and until relic gets their head out of their *** I will not be playing or recommending this game to anyone.

Joel expressed his opinion and while I partly disagree with him (while I tend to agree with HolyHammer and NoLuckyStrike on many points, even if not in the way they expressed those points) I also respect what he said. (remembering also that he missed the last 2-3 months on COH2). Be sure we spend every single minute of our free time on these issues that I personally consider CORE. I'll bring you an example: when Rome 2 came out it was full of bugs and things that didn't work as intentend, but instead of leaving the game as it was Creative Assembly worked day and night on many core patches to fix a huge amount of things, at least the most important ones. They showed the community how much they cared to save their game, and while there's still a lot to do personally I appreciated at least to see their effort (they also released the first DLCs basically for free).

On COH2 instead, we got no patch to improve performances, no patch to affect the core game and change the main problems pointed out many times before and the features we have asked (like observer mode, replay features, ladders and so on) seem to be dependant on how well DLCs sell. At this point I can tell you we are working on various proposals that at some point we'll submit to the whole community here, on the official forums and on gr.org (and hopefully even on other communities like HQ-COH, COHJC and so on), and that then, after collecting the feedback from the widest number of people possible, will be sent to Relic. That's really the only thing we can do.

I don't think we can honestly talk of "PRO" players in COH2 because the game is in such a state that you can have a poor micro, macro, unit preservation and tactical decisions but still be able to win because of the number of T0-T1 units you build and all the issues affecting the game.

lol, top german player won snf quali 1, quali2 final has top soviet player and #5 combined factions player, snf had consistently the same players in the top 8.
yet the game is "low skill ceiling" and RNG based: sure.

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?s=&showtopic=937284&view=findpost&p=9581034

I think this post about sums it up. The game sucks and in an insult to the original not to mention any RTS game.

this is the most idiotic thing I've ever read

Most of the old school high level coh1 players just don't play. Thats why everyone considers the best players these days to be people like HelpingHans and VonIvan, who were simply above average vcoh players.

even insulting, implies that those vcoh "pros" would be #1 if they just installed coh2, when in reality it's a completely different game. They probably tried the game and just because it was different and they had to actually learn it they gave up, and started trashing the game with this vCoH elitism: just plain silly.
even sillier is that they decide to show up when snf comes out and play just for the money: that's great community spirit and I sure don't wanna hear their words in this forum

this game had potential, business model and commanders killed it, end of story

When I see each posts on each forum, it's always the same things. So i'm just wondering HOW is it possible than dev's are the only one who dont understand what COH2 needs....
I mean except the fact you never played a RTS game, you can't make a game so bad!

Things are easy RELIC, we ask you to copy/paste COH1 parameters on the COH2 files not more!!

+ 10000000000000 HolyHammer
+ 100000000 LuckyStrike ( Kappa )

The speed of coh 1 is for me totally paradoxal about a strategy game ....

You say : Skill and fast reaction ... but fast reaction, why in a strategy game ? I want not loose a game because my opponnent was more speed with his MOUSE and hand CLIK CLIK CLIK ...

I've only made about 30 bucks off this game so I'm not quite pro yet, but:

Compared to vCoH, units don't respond as well, pathing with both vehicles and infantry is a serious issue. Twister pointed out to me the other day that in vCoH, the squad caught up to the fastest man in front. In CoH2, the squad waits for the slowest man to catch up; this makes infantry respond much worse. This plus the input lag makes for a frustrating experience microing.

There is too much visual clutter. It's sometimes hard to tell what is going on in a battle because the ground textures and the unit textures are too complex.

Balance is not something I'm concerned about because it takes a long time for the meta game to be worked out, and the devs are doing a good job listening, whatever you may think of the current state of DLC commanders.

I'd like tank traps to be non doctrinal, and for germans to have the option to lay an anti personnel mine that doesn't reveal itself with a polite sign.

I like most of the unit mechanics in CoH 2 more however. Snipers are more fun, artillery is more consistent instead of wiping a squad or missing completely, and true sight is an excellent addition.

Since all kinds of players skills have now commented, let me add one from the noob-bracket:

I still like this game, but I agree completely with the above quote.

Improving those parts of the game would also improve the game for casual gamers IMO.

lol, top german player won snf quali 1, quali2 final has top soviet player and #5 combined factions player, snf had consistently the same players in the top 8.
yet the game is "low skill ceiling" and RNG based: sure.



this is the most idiotic thing I've ever read

even insulting, implies that those vcoh "pros" would be #1 if they just installed coh2, when in reality it's a completely different game. They probably tried the game and just because it was different and they had to actually learn it they gave up, and started trashing the game with this vCoH elitism: just plain silly.
even sillier is that they decide to show up when snf comes out and play just for the money: that's great community spirit and I sure don't wanna hear their words in this forum

this game had potential, business model and commanders killed it, end of story

No It isn't because the game is just different it really is lacking in a lot of stuff, I already learned the game and I can say that if you consider gren spam and conscript spam any strategic then you are out of your mind.

No It isn't because the game is just different it really is lacking in a lot of stuff, I already learned the game and I can say that if you consider gren spam and conscript spam any strategic then you are out of your mind.

Devm instead of always burning CoH2 down let's look at it from another perspective: Do you think there is something that can be done to CoH2 to make it a better/good game? Or do you really think it is hopeless?

Hmmm yeah, i also think most of what HolyHammer said is the honest truth.

But i can't dislike anything with an Elefant tank in it. Such a sweet looking and sounding Elefant. I... i... i just can't.

Devm instead of always burning CoH2 down let's look at it from another perspective: Do you think there is something that can be done to CoH2 to make it a better/good game? Or do you really think it is hopeless?

Yes there is many things that can be done to make coh2 better, these things have been discussed already by the Vcoh experts in these forums and have been in vain since relic rarely visits the forums.

Edit: sorry if i sound mad but I really am since many efforts have been made even from the coh2.org staff to change coh2 and relic hasn't been paying any attention, if you watched SNF yesterday you know how the game is right now.

The game in this state is not fun to play for anyone. It's not fun for casual player and it's not fun for pro because as it stands now the game is P2W. They will balance these commanders once they sell enough of them, but than again they will release new OP ones in a month or so. And the core stuff that everybody above named are not being looked upon, further the game still don't have some basic elements like leaderboards.
The fact is that they are only interested in profit and not in any tipe of the players (pro or casual), and they are not interested in the game. And the thing that makes me LOL the most is that they are aiming to become an E-sport with this approach to the game.

Edit: I just wanted to add that right now the game doesn't reward anything good like micro, macro, flanking only partly it rewards cutoff. I watched SNF yesterday and the games was soooo boring, every game is about spam, rushing vehicles and RNG.

im done with coh2 (see my sig) all points that i dont like were pointed in the replys before, my last hope is a final support patch/fix for coh1

You can support tommy with his patch if you wish : http://www.coh2.org/topic/10886/elite-mod-coh--download-and-changelog.

the game is garbage

COH2 is broken in so many ways and design elements its not even funny.

-RNG has a ridiculously big impact which should not be the case in a competetive RTS game.
Nothing is consistent (infantry criticals, mortars, artillery weapons, the whole flame weapon system, tanks/paks missing or not, penetration system, ram etc...) These are all random elements which you cant control and can very easily decide games.

and this is a big part of the reason why this game has an unbelievably low skill ceiling, imo its competing with CoD games in that category.

-the 2-3 second command lag is a huge issue, it further lowers the skill ceiling, cant react to nades or stop vehicle from moving in time which you could do otherwise.

-the building cover system is fucked, its way too strong and the only reliable counter early game is flamer which is only available on the vulnerable pios/engineers (not counting penals)
Snipers having 40% accuracy against units in buildings is a joke, another element that depends purely on luck.

-Autocover is terrible and can be really annoying. Units tend to crawl on the floor if you drop a nade close to them, if its a molotov units often crawl back to the fire and die thanks to autocover and random chance of death by fire. Snipers ignore attack command and start crawling towards the enemy.

-vehicle pathing is horrible, nuff said.

-blizzards on winter maps add nothing but frustration and annoyance, they are fucking horrible.

-all these op DLC commanders are just sad, they ruin this already fucked game even more.

-terrible map design in many cases that hugely favor one side like langres, road to kharkov, kholodny etc.

-the whole bulletin system is the most retarded thing i have ever seen for a RTS game.

-The complete lack of any kind of information regarding what units/abilities actually do, dps values, health pool etc.

-No SLI support. Im forced to play on low settings with a gtx690 cos of it. Its just ridiculous.


And lets not forget about all the missing multiplayer elements that even 10-15 old year games had on release.

-No Ladder/Leaderboards. You cant even see your elo rating.

-No ingame Lobby for custom games.

-No spectator mode... this one is just too funny

-Outdated replay system.

And probably many other things i forgot to include.

Its no wonder the game is dead, in fact it was dead on release already.

This is an excellent post. It's angry, but it's true, and in speaking plain truths, it's constructive. I'll do my best to forward it along to my Relic and Sega contacts.