What the PRO's think of COH2

This should be stickied IMO

Good input here.

So that every time relic comes, they see "oh, this is what coh2.org ppl want"

was coho online a true failure? It seemed to always have a shitload of people online at anytime of the day. But then it again it was free to play.

It closed, so I think it didn't make enough profit for Relic.

CoH2 is repeating the same mistakes than CoHO: Hero units and cheesy doctrines.
It can be fun for several games, but it will never be a strategy game to spend months playing.

For those of you who are confused, this is a bassline bug:

Hilarious!

How wrong is what you just said. Tell me, if your opponent have an IS-152 you still dont know what doctrine he choosed? An also when the game starts you can see the faceplate with what commander he choosed to play, so you are able to take the best of your 3 commanders you have choosed and counter his.

Uhm you know that you cannot change your loadout after the game started, don't you? I am not talking about which commander you picked from your 3 commanders in your loadout, I am talking about which 3 commanders he chose for the game out of the ~15 available.

@Trainz: We saw grenspam, fast flamer halftrack, and 2 pio 4 gren 2 mg openings, and there were assault gren starts in some of the non-casted games. Some people went t2 and some people didn't. Soviets went both t2 t3, t1 t3, and t1 t4. That's about as varied as vCoH starts.

I am not necessarily talking about which unit to build, but the general way to play out a game. I have to admit that I was not able to watch too many games, but those that I watched played out quite similar. It party felt like I was watching a game that was similar to games that I saw before. I started to get this feeling just about 6 months before I quit playing CoH1, so after roughly 3 years of playing it.

But maybe I just missed too many games that played out differently, so I might be totally wrong here.

I have read through these pages with interest. The phrase "The view was better from the plane" comes to mind, as I try to envision (dread word)the mindset of many of those who landed in Vancouver, on a guest pass,fully paid.

I highly doubt if many of those who visited Relic (with apparent relish) will receive a return invite. What is the point of feeding the hand which bites you? Would you,as an CM, like to answer to the SEGA CEO (or his minions) and say why?

You might argue that it is better to have the disentitled in the tent pissing out,rather than on the outside pissing in. But many of the disentitledd seem already to have made their own choice.

There is a discipline lacking on this site. It is a site apparently set up to support CoH2. Very well then. Let it ostensibly be so.

I fully accept that behind the scenes,there may well be representations about the evolution of CoH2. But I do not want to come here and resd incessant negative bleatings from the disentitled. I do not want this site to be used to perpetuate a self-seeking minority oligarchy. That is what CoH2 set out to dissemble. If you did not understand that,then you read the pre-blurb with rose-tinted spectacles.

I have always understood it to be that CoH wanted a wider player base, which was not so inhibiting for a novice to master. In this way, Relic,as a non-charitable institution, might seek to profit (in a way that the original game never apparently did) and keep its new game alive(and its studio), with balance patching based on new sales of skins, commanders etc

It therefore makes no commercial sense at all, to me, that some here on this forum and recommend the destruction of CoH2, believing in their wildest dreams that the powers-that -be will revert to vCoH and produce a further patch. You think I talk nonsense? OK then.

Tell me,if you reply, how SEGA/Relic will make any money at all by scrapping CoH2 and patching vCoH. It is a pipe dream, nothing more. . Unless, ofc, you advocate making people pay for the new patch for vCoH, by refusing them entry to vCoH unless they pay. Can you hear the howls of (mostly) North American anguish?

" I paid 50 bucks for this game. I aint paying no more"

" This game aint FTP. I paid $50.00 6 years ago. I expect full support, for free, till the day I drop"

In your wildest dreams!

Put simply, (for the simplest): you will not be able to continue your muscling. You either accept reality,muscle down,accept the bad with the smooth and await a good outcome
(which will come) and tone down your acerbic comments. or else push the game to the point of no-return and lose the whole damned lot.

Are you that nihilist? Some of you, I regret,may be so

So when's COH 3 Modern Warfare coming out?


Also I hope that many of the points people have made make a clear message to be heard over at relic to try some new approaches. I mean didn't they learn from starting the COH 1 BETA TEST mode for players to test new patches before implementing it into the main game? Remember that late feature.

A simple fix to the commander bloat is to stop the automatic CP allocation once a commander is chosen, and allow for manual allocation across all three. Redundant commander abilities would be obstacles to unlocking late-game abilities and units, and add a component to choosing an efficient load-out.

Commanders would then become an adaptive and dynamic doctrine tree for players to customize and develop new strategies with. The linear one-track commander method is just, well, stale.

A simple fix to the commander bloat is to stop the automatic CP allocation once a commander is chosen, and allow for manual allocation across all three. Redundant commander abilities would be obstacles to unlocking late-game abilities and units, and add a component to choosing an efficient load-out.

Commanders would then become an adaptive and dynamic doctrine tree for players to customize and develop new strategies with. The linear one-track commander method is just, well, stale.

+100
Nice idea, something to explore.

Well from the post i've read, i see the majority of people who dont like it are 1v1 ''pro'' players and that's because as some of them said like Inverse, game has become less strategical and less tactical. Some other guy said that 3v3 and 4v4 is becoming a tank spam, in which i won't say its not true but i will say to him, go play montargis or redball on vCoH to see what tank spam is compare to CoH2.

I would say the game has great potential as Barton said and only thing we can do its just wait.. I never believed that CoH2 will be good since the beta release, but i see now great improveness compare to the early days of it.

+1000000 HolyHammer
+100000 LuckyStrike

All of the suggestions being posted over and over again would do nothing to drive away the casual player. These issues will only make CoH MORE compelling and make it possible for a casual player (like me when I first bought vcoh) to turn into a direhard fan, willing to support the franchise for years. It feels like they are selling out for the short term. Investing so much time and labor into the new commanders rather than fixing the core issues of the game that make it feel very sluggish and unresponsive. If I were relic I would be working non-stop on nothing but fixing the command lag. It literally ruins the game. Micro is essentially non-existent when my units can't even dodge a SATCHEL from the time that its thrown to when it goes off. Can't think of a more frustrating feeling in a game than losing a whole squad because it took a FULL 1.5 seconds to respond to my command.

I only worry about relic seeing the competitive scene as "1% of all players" while it may be true, casual players also enjoy good controls, no lag, good readability, ladders and interesting tech trees. Also esport events like SNF is huge free advertisement for relic so the competitive scene is a lot bigger than that 1%. I'm pretty sure its because the competitive scene in one way or an other that kept vcoh growing many years after release.

You summed up my concerns much more succinctly than I could. Thanks for this post.

Oh, and fix the input/command/ whatever you wanna call it lag. The game can't be played when your units feel so unresponsive.

" I paid 50 bucks for this game. I aint paying no more"

" This game aint FTP. I paid $50.00 6 years ago. I expect full support, for free, till the day I drop"

http://store.steampowered.com/app/4560/

u can still by the game, not 50$ like 6 years before, but 14,99$ or complete (OF +TOV) 24,99€. When people can buy a game (doesnt matter how old it is) they may expect full content, which means: working ranked games, leaderboard etc. or is it wrong?

the game is garbage

COH2 is broken in so many ways and design elements its not even funny.

-RNG has a ridiculously big impact which should not be the case in a competetive RTS game.
Nothing is consistent (infantry criticals, mortars, artillery weapons, the whole flame weapon system, tanks/paks missing or not, penetration system, ram etc...) These are all random elements which you cant control and can very easily decide games.

and this is a big part of the reason why this game has an unbelievably low skill ceiling, imo its competing with CoD games in that category.

-the 2-3 second command lag is a huge issue, it further lowers the skill ceiling, cant react to nades or stop vehicle from moving in time which you could do otherwise.

-the building cover system is fucked, its way too strong and the only reliable counter early game is flamer which is only available on the vulnerable pios/engineers (not counting penals)
Snipers having 40% accuracy against units in buildings is a joke, another element that depends purely on luck.

-Autocover is terrible and can be really annoying. Units tend to crawl on the floor if you drop a nade close to them, if its a molotov units often crawl back to the fire and die thanks to autocover and random chance of death by fire. Snipers ignore attack command and start crawling towards the enemy.

-vehicle pathing is horrible, nuff said.

-blizzards on winter maps add nothing but frustration and annoyance, they are fucking horrible.

-all these op DLC commanders are just sad, they ruin this already fucked game even more.

-terrible map design in many cases that hugely favor one side like langres, road to kharkov, kholodny etc.

-the whole bulletin system is the most retarded thing i have ever seen for a RTS game.

-The complete lack of any kind of information regarding what units/abilities actually do, dps values, health pool etc.

-No SLI support. Im forced to play on low settings with a gtx690 cos of it. Its just ridiculous.


And lets not forget about all the missing multiplayer elements that even 10-15 old year games had on release.

-No Ladder/Leaderboards. You cant even see your elo rating.

-No ingame Lobby for custom games.

-No spectator mode... this one is just too funny

-Outdated replay system.

And probably many other things i forgot to include.

Its no wonder the game is dead, in fact it was dead on release already.

I couldn't have sum it up better. I 100% agree. It is sad. I don't see a good end to this game and by the time it might be fixed no one would care anymore.

I wouldn't say the game is garbage, it's a solid follow up to the original and with patches, most things will get even better. Big problems are the DLC, bulletin and online system and the idea of marketing/producing CoH2 towards the comp stomping/casual community. There are plenty more problems that have made the game unfun to play to the point where I just don't feel like playing any more and likely won't.

If eventually there are patches in future that improve CoH2 to the point where it's fun enough then I'll play it again, but I don't have to force myself to play it, I'll just wait until that time.

First off I am not a pro, but here is my opinion. Yes I agree with you that the DLC is the main problem. I think the best way to get what we want from Relic/Sega is not by you not playing, but is by you not "paying".

The bottomline is that they have your money and they aren't going to get give it back. If Relic knows that you are not happy and not going to pay them more money in the future, they might make changes. So, I think the best way is to not buy their "new content" and tell them that.

I think that we are correct to voice your displeasure and tell/show them why you won't pay them again until they fix the problems(imbalance/new content/lack of support/lack features/ALL of what HolyHammer said ).

However, from the state that COH2 is in and the way it is going I don't think it can be fixed. How can it when every time a patch is release where they fix an imbalance, but they release new content with the changes that wasn't in the previous problem? It is counter productive because if you balance the game by buffing/nerfing a unit say the T70, how can it balance if it hasn't been properly play tested against a new unit/ability? IE: Soviet Industry? Now Relic has to go back and makes changes again and perhaps undo some changes that they did before which is what I meant by counterproductive.

But hey.... this is just my opinion and to be frank, I don't think there will be a good RTS for a long time. As nowadays it is all about money. Think about it, would you make a RTS, spend x hours developing, support, play testing, etc... and make an one time sale?

OR

Would you rather do all of the same things I have just mention and say... make a MMORPG and have people pay you every month? Or perhaps have them pay every month for a new commanders and "new content"?

Money/Math rules here.

So, what does leave us as the RTS community? Well unless a company goal is to make a RTS and make a one time profit from it(which by the way wouldn't be a very good business decision) then we would rarely, if ever see a good/balance RTS again.

I love COH2 more than COH1 - I can't understand why are you telling me about "COH1 was perfect". Relic removed ALL stupid things COH1 suffered of - useless Allied mortars, buyable Wehr veterancy, immortal snipers, annoying pushmobiles (jeeps, bikes, kettens), Allied tanks that sucked German vechicles's dick, I can continue. Game is more fast now - it's good I think.

Let's be honest - COH2 can't gain money like League of Legends for example because of its WW2 theme. Not so many people like it. And not so many people play RTS nowdays. Real RTS with base building, tiers and resourses. It requires some skill and time. So these DLC is their only choice. But price for these DLC is too high IMO. They should reduce it.

And I agree about linear Commander abilities - it can be more interesting.

I love COH2 more than COH1 - I can't understand why are you telling me about "COH1 was perfect". Relic removed ALL stupid things COH1 suffered of - useless Allied mortars, buyable Wehr veterancy, immortal snipers, annoying pushmobiles (jeeps, bikes, kettens), Allied tanks that sucked German vechicles's dick, I can continue. Game is more fast now - it's good I think.

Let's be honest - COH2 can't gain money like League of Legends for example because of its WW2 theme. Not so many people like it. And not so many people play RTS nowdays. Real RTS with base building, tiers and resourses. It requires some skill and time. So these DLC is their only choice. But price for these DLC is too high IMO. They should reduce it.

And I agree about linear Commander abilities - it can be more interesting.

Ok tell me how is buyable vet stupid in coh1, because as far as my game knowledge goes it was pretty balanced and added variety to the faction, if you used too many resources on vet then you would lose the map control because of the lack of units (and don't tell me vet was cheap because only the first rank was 100mp the others were quite the investment), the vet in coh1 also didn't affect every unit just some type of units.
You are also comparing the tanks of each faction but you just can't, US has many things better than WM too, the riflemen are a much better and versatile unit than what the german infantry has to offer and the US has special units like airborne that were also very good, sure the tanks were worse but the combined arms of the US could deal with the tanks pretty easily.

Ok tell me how is buyable vet stupid in coh1, because as far as my game knowledge goes it was pretty balanced and added variety to the faction, if you used too many resources on vet then you would lose the map control because of the lack of units (and don't tell me vet was cheap because only the first rank was 100mp the others were quite the investment), the vet in coh1 also didn't affect every unit just some type of units.
You are also comparing the tanks of each faction but you just can't, US has many things better than WM too, the riflemen are a much better and versatile unit than what the german infantry has to offer and the US has special units like airborne that were also very good, sure the tanks were worse but the combined arms of the US could deal with the tanks pretty easily.

Tell me what's harder - to gain vet 3 in combat (only one infantry unit) or buy it (for all infantry units)? Late game in COH1 was fatal for US - their weak tanks could do nothing to vet 3 Panthers. COH2 is pretty fair in this aspect - SU has some reliable counters at least (SU-85) while US didn't. Story is repeating in COH2 with this stupid buyable veterancy.

Except a vet 3 rifle would completely destroy any vet 3 Wehrmacht infantry squad.

Purchasable veterancy added immense strategic depth to vCoH. You could, for example, rush vet 2 infantry after two Grens, which was a huge investment in lategame that could backfire if your opponent was aggressive while you were upgrading the veterancy or teched to something like snipers. If he was passively teching as well, however, you would be at a massive advantage. Conversely, you could skip the vet and go for an extra Gren and maybe a Pak. If your opponent is aggressive now, you have the units you need to deal with him. If he's passively teching, however, you need to get something done with your units or he is going to outtech you.

That type of risk vs. reward decision-making is almost completely absent from CoH2. The only comparable decision to be made is when to advance to the next tech tier and build the next tech building.

Inverse, the issue is that vet 3 conscripts are still garbage lategame unlike riflemen.

And Elite Troops Commander's users like a lot to spam vet 3 Pgrens making SU85 and ATguns useless... then the Tiger Ace appears and you are screwed without AT units.


I don't like at all the "buy your veterancy" mechanic. In vCoH were more balanced because the german faction was designed having that in mind, but still gave in long games an advantage to axis players because allied players couldn't replace their vet units as easily.

I still remember with awe those vet3 KCH spams taking VPs under hmg fire, sniper shots and arty barrages.

But in CoH2 germans are intended to fight for veterancy alike to soviets. That mechanic seems now artificially introduced and it will create surely very powerful combinations in teamgames.

Inverse, DevM, Trainz, NoLuckyStrike, Sepha and HolyHammer summed it up quite well.

Viewed individually, as a separate entity that has nothing to do with the original CoH, CoH 2 is not a bad game (i'd probably call it decent). It has it's moments, but nothing that i'd continue playing for weeks or months after finishing the campaign.

The fundamental flaws that CoH2 has right now have been mentioned in Alpha (afaik, had no access to the forums) and in Beta too (some beta forum members might recall my giant post that evolved into a pretty heated discussion... btw, thanks for threatening to close my thread because i refused to feed the trolls, ImperialDane!). These fundamentally flawed game mechanics and the general approach the devs had seemingly taken has not changed since.

I fully understand all the frustration that has been voiced here, as i share the feeling. I can't play CoH2 (and pretty much haven't after release) despite having pre-ordered it pretty much the second i saw it go up on Steam, simply because when i play it i can't help but think of what it could have been, hadn't they changed a lot of what made CoH1 great, while keeping a lot of what was wrong with it.

While i still feel like CoH2 has the potential to be a good, maybe even a great game (given a lot of changes), my hopes for this happening are fading away (and what i hear from players that are still playing is not exactly encouraging).

tl;dr:
Game is not what it could have been. Could be fixed, but probably won't.


Edit: btw i also agree with budwise in that CoH was better than CoH2 is... mainly because it was a lot closer to CoH. The balance might have been a nightmare (and there were other things that were wrong with it too, but after all, it was still a beta), but it was still a lot of fun (even if it was just because almost every commander had some sort of ridiculously overpowered ability) and, being targeted at the more casual players, could have potentially made a lot of money i think.