On medics the pop cost of 3 should be shifted to the squad and the models themselves should cost 0 pop, so that the tactic Vipper mentioned where you get two of the models killed to cheat the pop cost isn't possible.
I think this would be in the same vein as the USF changes to penalize going over your pop cap.
[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback
- This thread is locked
12 Dec 2020, 07:58 AM
#281
Posts: 789
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
12 Dec 2020, 08:20 AM
#282
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Why would this be 'abuse'?
Because:
1) it cheaper than USF/Soviet source of heal
2) it is AOE heal compare to Soviet thus more effective for for large entity squads (at least from live. In the patch medic has received a boost in healing under QOL section and in my opinion should be removed since it affect balance since it does not affect all faction the same way)
3) because the same medics can be used to cap in the early game and heal unit in frontline
Ostheer can build a cheap medic bunker for their OKW allies in team games. Should this be removed too?
UKF can already build FA with medic for their allies, and USF can already donate the ambulance to their ally and keep the medic. This is not Ostheer privilege.
Or is this OK because it's axis?
This line of argument is non constructive and leads nowhere.
If in your opinion Ostheer bunker are OP feel free to argue your case.
UKF already have healing options other faction would love to have without the medic squad. There is not reason for this option to be available for UKF as stock option.
12 Dec 2020, 08:37 AM
#283
Posts: 498
UKF received the medic squad to encourage/accommodate more diverse builds (support weapons, Assault Sections, etc.) and because it's not desirable to force people to build a FORWARD Assembly in their base.
I'v got a partial counterargument for the diversity aspect: if we look at the two doctrines that feature ass tommies and at tommies we can see both of them has a halftrack. And coincidely these halftracks are gaining the ability to heal in this patch. In all other cases one would always have at least one medic IS to heal support weapons anyway.
I agree that with the recent fix UKF medics are indeed too cheap. Sure they can't reinforce like USF ambo, but that's their only non-doc healing platform and most of the times it sits in their base in smaller gamemodes. I believe it is more likely on the other hand that UKF medics sometimes would leave the base to capture some nearby sectors as risking their loss is not as serious for UKF as it is for USF.
As for a solution I would add some munitions to their cost. Not 60 as forward assembly but somewhere around 30 or 45. Or not even to the squad directly, but as an unlockable sidetech that allows the requisition of medics. Perhaps it could be 5-10 fuel instead in the latter approach.
12 Dec 2020, 08:44 AM
#284
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Because:
1) it cheaper than USF/Soviet source of heal
Ostheer medic bunker is cheaper than OKW battlegroup HQ. It's a fairly common tactic to build a bunker for your OKW ally so they don't have to back-tech. Again not abuse though I guess because your definition only applies when allies do it.
12 Dec 2020, 09:03 AM
#285
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Ostheer medic bunker is cheaper than OKW battlegroup HQ. It's a fairly common tactic to build a bunker for your OKW ally so they don't have to back-tech.
How is medic bunker OP compared to Forward assembly?
Again not abuse though I guess because your definition only applies when allies do it.
If I claim that you are an "allied fanboy" will that make your arguments less valid?
12 Dec 2020, 09:41 AM
#286
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
My 2 cent about UKF:
The timing changes to the AEC are not enough imo. The fast arrival of the AEC was justified when UK did not have snare options. This time is long over. Its simply not ok that the AEC can arrive sooner than the Luchs / or that the Luchs barely have any window to operate even if the fuel control was split.
The timing changes to the AEC are not enough imo. The fast arrival of the AEC was justified when UK did not have snare options. This time is long over. Its simply not ok that the AEC can arrive sooner than the Luchs / or that the Luchs barely have any window to operate even if the fuel control was split.
12 Dec 2020, 09:57 AM
#287
Posts: 42
Agree about the AEC timing. Also against okw early carrier is hard to counter, sniper also.
New section upgrade I don't know if it's worth it. Tried it myself and it's a downgrade in firepower at allmost all ranges. Tightrope made a video and normal section are just better. Maybe one squad for capping....
New section upgrade I don't know if it's worth it. Tried it myself and it's a downgrade in firepower at allmost all ranges. Tightrope made a video and normal section are just better. Maybe one squad for capping....
12 Dec 2020, 09:59 AM
#288
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
My 2 cent about UKF:
The timing changes to the AEC are not enough imo. The fast arrival of the AEC was justified when UK did not have snare options. This time is long over. Its simply not ok that the AEC can arrive sooner than the Luchs / or that the Luchs barely have any window to operate even if the fuel control was split.
The simplest solution would probably to increase the tech timing.
12 Dec 2020, 10:09 AM
#289
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
If I claim that you are an "allied fanboy" will that make your arguments less valid?
You are the one crying about how UKF medics could be 'abused' by one playing making multiple medic squads to heal their allies. A thing that Ostheer has been doing for years for their OKW allies but never appeared to be a problem for you.
12 Dec 2020, 10:39 AM
#290
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You are the one crying about how UKF medics could be 'abused' by one playing making multiple medic squads to heal their allies. A thing that Ostheer has been doing for years for their OKW allies but never appeared to be a problem for you.
Your bunker "argument" would make some sense if it was in anyway unique to Ostheer. It is not.
In addition the need of ostheer player to "help" their OKW teammates derives from rhe weakness of the faction to back tech. This has been acknowledged from the Mod team as an issue and they have tried to fix it in this patch.
UKF can build FA and heal their teammates.
USF can use the ambulance to heal their teammates, the can even "donate" their ambulance to their teammates and keep the medics.
UKF medic is simply a unit that is not needed and has the potential to create issues. There is simply not reason for this unit to available as a stock unit, especially if it is limited to only one faction that already has some great healing tools.
Now can we stop all non constructive posts that aim to present me as biased? If you want to challenge the my points feel free to do so but focusing on me is pointless and nonconstructive.
12 Dec 2020, 11:04 AM
#291
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
UKF can build FA and heal their teammates.
the FA is more expensive and take triple the time to build compare to bunker, on top of that UKF will mostly have 2 squad can build it while ost have it on all mainline and pio, so build a FA for teammate as UKF is just take too long that most pp just dont do it.
12 Dec 2020, 11:15 AM
#292
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I'm quite positive that dirt cheap med bunkers are pretty unique to ost.
Someone thinks UKF medics are not needed, good, don't use them.
But there is no logical argument contesting what Sander said about them on why they shouldn't be there.
Someone thinks UKF medics are not needed, good, don't use them.
But there is no logical argument contesting what Sander said about them on why they shouldn't be there.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Dec 2020, 11:29 AM
#293
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
the FA is more expensive and take triple the time to build compare to bunker, on top of that UKF will mostly have 2 squad can build it while ost have it on all mainline and pio, so build a FA for teammate as UKF is just take too long that most pp just dont do it.
And FA offer addition staff.
If the problem is the price lower the price of the FA 150...
As for availability of builders not a major factor, since there is little reason to spam these structures that can also be fix by allowing IS to build them if there actually a need for it.
The built time is already being addressed in the patch and I have pointed out that it could be lowered more.
It has been argued that ostheer medic bunkers is somehow giving an edge to Ostheer but that simply not the case, if you believe it is feel free to provide you arguments.
12 Dec 2020, 11:49 AM
#294
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
The simplest solution would probably to increase the tech timing.
Unless you'd increase it by a ridiculous amount that's not going to do anything, because generally people tech AEC well before reaching the additional resources to build the unit itself.
12 Dec 2020, 11:52 AM
#295
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
And FA offer addition staff.
What exactly does it offer while built in the base or built for teammates (in their base), outside of the healing?
Noone, or at least not me, ever have an issue with ost provide healing for teammates so i dont have anything to argue here.
All of my point is that In the case of FA, it is not an issue (pre patch) cause it is inconvenience and not cost-effective nor time-effecive. If you want to improve the accessibility of the FA to get rid of the medic then it is by me, i dont like the medic, too, but messing with the FA will just create more issue sine it is linked to weapons access and other doctrinal stuff, and go through all of that mess just to get rid of the medic because is just a no, especially when there are a lot of stuff that actually need more care like the raid section, etc.
12 Dec 2020, 12:13 PM
#296
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Unless you'd increase it by a ridiculous amount that's not going to do anything, because generally people tech AEC well before reaching the additional resources to build the unit itself.
Well then one can increase by ridiculous amount or move it to T3 and break the T3 cost into 2 stage. First stage unlocks AEC/bofors second unlock the tanks.
There is little reason for AEC/Bofors to be side tech if they are not mutually exclusive.
(other than having some people complain about what disadvantage side tech is)
12 Dec 2020, 12:18 PM
#297
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
What exactly does it offer while built in the base or built for teammates (in their base), outside of the healing?
Noone, or at least not me, ever have an issue with ost provide healing for teammates so i dont have anything to argue here.
Nothing.
All of my point is that In the case of FA, it is not an issue (pre patch) cause it is inconvenience and not cost-effective nor time-effecive. If you want to improve the accessibility of the FA to get rid of the medic then it is by me, i dont like the medic, too, but messing with the FA will just create more issue sine it is linked to weapons access and other doctrinal stuff, and go through all of that mess just to get rid of the medic because is just a no, especially when there are a lot of stuff that actually need more care like the raid section, etc.
If have little problem with FA. I have simple point in it existence as healing method since some users seem to ignore it.
I have no issue with UKF getting separate base heal similar to soviets either if there is a need for it.
Imo UKF medics as simply not needed and have the potential to create more issues than they solve, which is something that I think you also agree.
12 Dec 2020, 12:45 PM
#298
Posts: 1515
Imo UKF medics as simply not needed and have the potential to create more issues than they solve, which is something that I think you also agree.
Which problems exactly? You are as vague as ever. Talking about potentials about this and that. Explain. Argument your claims. So far you're only saying "UKF has a lot of medics". End of story. That's the whole argument. How does that lead to problems? Please do argument it.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
12 Dec 2020, 12:49 PM
#299
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Which problems exactly? You are as vague as ever. Talking about potentials about this and that. Explain. Argument your claims. So far you're only saying "UKF has a lot of medics". End of story. That's the whole argument. How does that lead to problems? Please do argument it.
I have in previous post.
Can you explain what role UKF medic serve?
Why there is a need for a "new" solution when base medics have allready have been tested and work?
Why should there be any effort diverted in "new" solution when they are not necessary?
12 Dec 2020, 12:59 PM
#300
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Can you explain what role UKF medic serve?
Yes.
They heal wounded units.
Why there is a need for a "new" solution when base medics have allready have been tested and work?
Because a medic squad already existed since release for UKF.
Why should there be any effort diverted in "new" solution when they are not necessary?
Because that solution is readily available for the faction with minimum effort and doesn't require adapting other factions solution.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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