[Winter Balance Update] SOV Feedback

Jump back to quoted post2 Dec 2020, 19:50 PMelchino7

I can still imagine a timeline on which T1 received the 45mm AT gun and PTRS Penals were not a thing, only receiving the sticky satchel.

Trying to balance PTRS as an AT weapon is a nightmare. Cause it's either inconsequential or it achieves critical mass and it becomes stupid and viable.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 08:27 AMTheMachine

It's a nice idea but I think giving PTRS Penals more late game scaling (with a second +2x PTRS upgrade at T4) is better because then Soviets have good mobile infantry-based anti-tank. Dealing with Elefant/Jagdtiger + Panzerwerfers/Stukas in team games is so obnoxious because Ziss guns die to the Rocket Artillery and and SU-85's die to the heavy TD's. All Soviets can really do was ram cheese but now that's been heavily nerfed. Whereas both USF and British have much easier times with Bazookas and Piats as well as turreted Tank Destroyers that can flank. Having mobile squads with AT on Soviets gives a lot more potential and opens strategic options. A second PTRS upgrade at T4 allows for late game scaling without being too strong against LV's or Mediums in the mid game.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 08:53 AMVipper

A unit that has great AI then can retain some of that AI and upgraded to Anti light and then to Anti super heavy is bad design.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 08:56 AMTheMachine

...
Regardless, how is it bad design if the Penals lose their anti-infantry in order to get anti-tank? ...

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 09:02 AMVipper

A unit that is available at the early stage of the game and then adapt to all stages of the game becomes spam-able and leave little use for other units to bring something to the table.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 09:02 AMVipper

Why in you opinion adding a separate anti vehicle infatry in T1 is a worse solution?

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 09:08 AMTheMachine

Because then you have a bunch of rigid one-dimensional units that only fill a single or limited role. That's not interesting. There is elegance in quality over quantity.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 09:02 AMVipper

A unit that is available at the early stage of the game and then adapt to all stages of the game becomes spam-able and leave little use for other units to bring something to the table.

The solution does lay in making Penal able to do everything but to have different units do different things so the army composition is diverse.

Why in you opinion adding a separate anti vehicle infatry in T1 is a worse solution?

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 09:08 AMTheMachine

Like Riflemen, Infantry Sections, Panzer Grenadiers and Rangers? There is nothing unusual about this. I don't see how a dedicated anti-tank 4x PTRS penal squad is spam-able. They counter Mediums, Tank Destroyers and Panthers. They'd lose to infantry, and they'd get devastated by Tigers which heavily splash them for large manpower bleed. I'm not asking for anything new, I just want Soviets to have access to the same strategic options that every other faction enjoys: mobile infantry-based AT that works past the first few minutes in the game, and on a unit that is underused and limited in its utility since it's current 2x PTRS upgrade sucks with no scaling.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 09:11 AMElaindil

There's no elegance in giving one unit all the tools. I agree with Vipper.

IS and Riflemen never carry AT unless you are desperate or bad. And PG with schrecks is also very rare sight and mostly it's just one PG.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 10:44 AMTodore

Why not just give penals the 7man upgrade at T4 to solve their lack of late game. It would even have synergy with their vet 1 ability " To the last man ". So in the end, soviets are left with a choice between 7 man cons which have mediocre firepower but great utility or 7 man penals which have good firepower but bad utility for their late game infantry.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 05:44 AMT.R. Stormjäger

Hell no on PTRS penetration buff. It would be a megabuff to Guards blobs which would clown mediums.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 07:43 AMVipper

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 11:27 AMGachiGasm

Then its 260 damage over x2 PTRS vs 240 double zooks\schrecks\piats, if penals have same bonus damage.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 11:30 AMKatitof

No, its not, not even close, because axis tanks have more then 70 armor.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 11:31 AMGachiGasm

Because follow the discussion please. Or you feel that nessesry to put your two words everywhere, whithout even reading in what context its being said.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 11:36 AMKatitof

Its still incorrect, because PTRS most certainly do NOT shoot once per second.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 11:27 AMGachiGasm

Then its 260 damage over x2 PTRS vs 240 double zooks\schrecks\piats, if penals have same bonus damage.

Jump back to quoted post3 Dec 2020, 12:19 PMGachiGasm

Damage over specific types of the unit goes on top of the base damage then?