[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback
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12 Jan 2021, 12:34 PM
#681
Posts: 290
I would still just remove sandbags from all main line infantry (gren, rifle, conscripts, IS, volks). Give the sandbag building to engineer units (rear,pio,sturm,engineer,soviet engi)
12 Jan 2021, 12:38 PM
#682
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
That's somehow not spammable? Wow, I won't build 30 of them but 15...
Yes with a price of 50 they are not spammable.
Are baiting or do you actually have a point? unless you seriously thinking that one can win a game by investing 750 manpower in building garrison cover.
12 Jan 2021, 12:45 PM
#683
Posts: 1515
Yes with a price of 50 they are not spammable.
Are baiting or do you actually have a point? unless you seriously thinking that one can win a game by investing 750 manpower in building garrison cover.
Because you won't spend 750 MP in one go. 50 MP is a quasi price. If any sort of bunker had a 50 MP cost, I'd spam it. Especially in teamgames. I won't build 10 rear echelons to build 10 bunkers at once. Do you see the point or are you daft to counter-arguments?
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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12 Jan 2021, 12:55 PM
#684
Posts: 1273
Because you won't spend 750 MP in one go. 50 MP is a quasi price. If any sort of bunker had a 50 MP cost, I'd spam it. Especially in teamgames. I won't build 10 rear echelons to build 10 bunkers at once. Do you see the point or are you daft to counter-arguments?
I wouldn't expect an argument, as demonstrated endlessly. Back on topic: Even with a cost of 50MP it would be spammed, even just to block pathfinding for vehicles. Free-ish bunkers in their current state are a no-no, perhaps with a much longer build time they might be somewhat acceptable. I'd rather have sandbags on Grens.
12 Jan 2021, 12:55 PM
#685
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Because you won't spend 750 MP in one go. 50 MP is a quasi price.
If they where any good people would build 5 of them for the current 150. They do not build a single one.
If any sort of bunker had a 50 MP cost, I'd spam it. Especially in teamgames.
And what troops would place in these bunker if spammed them?
I won't build 10 rear echelons to build 10 bunkers at once.
RE do not build bunker the build fighting position. How many fight position that cost 125 MP do you average build in your game?
Do you see the point or are you daft to counter-arguments?
If you had an argument, there would be a reason to respond but you do not have an argument other "I would spam them". Which does not really qualify for argument.
12 Jan 2021, 12:57 PM
#686
Posts: 1273
If you had an argument, there would be a reason to respond but you do not have an argument other "I would spam them". Which does not really qualify for argument.
"I would spam them" is a perfectly valid argument. If bunkers on grens are free or very cheap 50MP, everyone would spam them all over the map on every possible opportunity, at every choke point, close to bridges, or anywhere that messes up pathfinding, or anywhere where possible battles would exist, ready for quick upgrades. People do that with sandbags already, but bunkers are larger, block more surface, are easier to place, has more HP, messes up pathfinding, cannot be crushed by vehicles, and have several upgrade paths. "Spamming" is a very valid argument that you must accept, even if you do not seem to understand the reasoning.
12 Jan 2021, 13:21 PM
#687
1 
Posts: 2439 | Subs: 6
Having played 10 competitive games as wehrmacht on the balance mod, I can confirm that they do seem a lot more viable in 1v1 when not using crutch infantry like ostruppen and assault grens. At least at my level when playing against rank 200-400 opponents.
I attribute this to the gren/mg42 formation changes, and the t70 nerf.
Most of the people in this thread have probably not even played 1 game on the balance mod, they shouldn't even be allowed to express their opinion on this topic in my genuine opinion.
Yes I'm gatekeeping, there should be a rule: "play before you form your opinions or STFU". We've all been guilty of this in the past but it doesn't mean we can't change.
I attribute this to the gren/mg42 formation changes, and the t70 nerf.
Most of the people in this thread have probably not even played 1 game on the balance mod, they shouldn't even be allowed to express their opinion on this topic in my genuine opinion.
Yes I'm gatekeeping, there should be a rule: "play before you form your opinions or STFU". We've all been guilty of this in the past but it doesn't mean we can't change.
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12 Jan 2021, 13:25 PM
#688
Posts: 83
I would still just remove sandbags from all main line infantry (gren, rifle, conscripts, IS, volks). Give the sandbag building to engineer units (rear,pio,sturm,engineer,soviet engi)
Not a viable idea I think, Sturmpios and REs are already overburdened with tasks and Conscript sandbags are part of their compensation for underwhelming combat performance.
12 Jan 2021, 13:27 PM
#689
Posts: 713 | Subs: 2
Having played 10 competitive games as wehrmacht on the balance mod, I can confirm that they do seem a lot more viable in 1v1 when not using crutch infantry like ostruppen and assault grens. At least at my level when playing against rank 200-400 opponents.
I attribute this to the gren/mg42 formation changes, and the t70 nerf.
Most of the people in this thread have probably not even played 1 game on the balance mod, they shouldn't even be allowed to express their opinion on this topic in my genuine opinion.
Yes I'm gatekeeping, there should be a rule: "play before you form your opinions or STFU". We've all been guilty of this in the past but it doesn't mean we can't change.
You filthy elitist. You just insulted the entirety of this beautiful little community.
12 Jan 2021, 13:32 PM
#690
Posts: 290
Not a viable idea I think, Sturmpios and REs are already overburdened with tasks and Conscript sandbags are part of their compensation for underwhelming combat performance.
You think OST pio's aren't the most overburdened unit in the game, while their "fake" main line infantry can't even build sandbags. Sturmpio & RE are maybe the most not overburdened compared other factions.
12 Jan 2021, 15:01 PM
#692
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Having played 10 competitive games
Nice joke AE. Haha j/k thanks for playing the mod. Looking forward to ML4 to get some quality feedback / test results from all the games that are going to be played on the balance mod. Ostheer and Grens look promising.
12 Jan 2021, 17:22 PM
#693
Posts: 1594
You think OST pio's aren't the most overburdened unit in the game, while their "fake" main line infantry can't even build sandbags. Sturmpio & RE are maybe the most not overburdened compared other factions.
RE sure, but Sturmpioneers? No, they're already heavily burdened. Sturms are expected to lay mines, wire (With wire that takes significantly longer to lay than normal), repair vehicles (Alone, until lategame, IF the OKW player has gone mechanised), heal (If the player hasn't gone Battlegroup), and act as OKW's assault infantry. They just don't have the time to sandbag at the moment.
This is compounded by their expense and pop-cap pricing that means getting more than one Sturm is simply non-viable in most games (And they are comparatively difficult to replace).
As much as Sandbags on Mainlines is AIDS, I think that OKW are honestly the only faction that can't justify taking it away from them... unless they had access to a cheaper engineer unit to supplement Sturms.
12 Jan 2021, 17:42 PM
#694
Posts: 83
Royals have to do most of that too (except for healing) while also being the only source of snares. They spend all of their time just running between vehicles that need repairs, places to lay/defuse mines and skirmishes with vehicles that need to be snares. They can't be further burdened either.
12 Jan 2021, 18:03 PM
#695
Posts: 1594
Royals have to do most of that too (except for healing) while also being the only source of snares. They spend all of their time just running between vehicles that need repairs, places to lay/defuse mines and skirmishes with vehicles that need to be snares. They can't be further burdened either.
Royals are not as utterly vital to the UKF early game as Sturms are to the OKW early game, however. They're also much, much cheaper.
The earliest UKF vehicle (The UC) Also heals itself, and so doesn't require RoyEs to assist it.
12 Jan 2021, 18:10 PM
#696
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Royals are not as utterly vital to the UKF early game as Sturms are to the OKW early game, however.
And spios are not heavily burdened in early game either, they literally completely take over PG role for first 5-7 mins.
They're also much, much cheaper.
And you need at least 2 to be as efficient as single spio.
The earliest UKF vehicle (The UC) Also heals itself, and so doesn't require RoyEs to assist it.
It heals itself, because there are no REs at that time, tho patch changes that now, but I doubt they'll be used.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Jan 2021, 18:18 PM
#697
Posts: 1594
And spios are not heavily burdened in early game either, they literally completely take over PG role for first 5-7 mins.
And you need at least 2 to be as efficient as single spio.
It heals itself, because there are no REs at that time, tho patch changes that now, but I doubt they'll be used.
Your argument for them not being overburdened is that they function as Pgrens for the first 5-7 minutes? Does their necessary constant fighting leave them any time to build sandbags?
As "Efficient" in what sense?
Im aware of why the UC can autoheal. The fact that UKF have not had RoyEs from minute 0 and UKF have been viable is testament to how non-vital RoyEs are to UKF early game.
12 Jan 2021, 18:19 PM
#698
Posts: 1515
I love how everyone is talking about spios being overburdened. Might be true in later stages of the game, but in first 5 minutes they walk over anything allies can field close to medium range. 5-10 minutes, they walk over most of the units. Only when the upgrades come do they lose their combat effectiveness purely because of other tasks they need to do. They will still be dangerous close range at any stage of the game. They can down a 5 man squad in a couple of seconds on some CQC maps that have hard corners.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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12 Jan 2021, 18:30 PM
#699
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Your argument for them not being overburdened is that they function as Pgrens for the first 5-7 minutes? Does their necessary constant fighting leave them any time to build sandbags?
I've said they are NOT overburdened by anything in early game.
Reading comprehension.
As "Efficient" in what sense?
Both, repair time capacity and offensive capabilities.
Im aware of why the UC can autoheal. The fact that UKF have not had RoyEs from minute 0 and UKF have been viable is testament to how non-vital RoyEs are to UKF early game.
And what is your point here?
Its not like tripple kubel or something is meta opening, so spios don't repair anything prior to luchs/puma anyway.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Jan 2021, 18:31 PM
#700
Posts: 1594
I love how everyone is talking about spios being overburdened. Might be true in later stages of the game, but in first 5 minutes they walk over anything allies can field close to medium range. 5-10 minutes, they walk over most of the units. Only when the upgrades come do they lose their combat effectiveness purely because of other tasks they need to do. They will still be dangerous close range at any stage of the game. They can down a 5 man squad in a couple of seconds on some CQC maps that have hard corners.
Their strong combat performance isnt evidence of them not being burdened with tasks though. The point at which they stop being quite so good at fighting allied troops is the point at which they might actually have the time to get engineering done.
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