Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Is the T34 being shitty also the reason why it got its price increased?
And if you argue that the T34 being bad was the reason for the existance of the call in meta, the only thing it proves is that you do not understand why the call in meta existed in the first place.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
Posts: 177
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
1) I never said T34 was bad, I said main gun was.
2) People used doctrinal 85 over it even after they were tied to tech, only after MG buffs it re-surfaced, in case you don't remember.
Posts: 5279
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
According to the statistics on serealia, vipper seems to be right about the three PIV MGs being comparable to the two SOV mgs.
All values approximate Min range DPS Max range DPS
T-34 28.3 13.5
Panzer IV 15.28 10.7
Panzer IV (+ coax) 30.38 14.68
The tank cannon performance vs infantry is hard to calculate, the T-34 and PIV share the same (AI relevant) statistics for their cannons other than: close AOE, Scatter distance max, and Reload Time.
An interesting outlier is that apparently the t-34 has "Damage all in Hold" set to "true", whereas the PIV does not. I'm not sure if that refers to the contents of transport vehicles, to garrisons, or to both.
Serealia calculates the difference between the 80 damage radius on both tanks as 0.02(units?) t-34 1.11 vs PIV 1.13.
I'm uncertain how to work out the impact of the scatter distance differences in a realistic sense. The T-34 has approximately 10% worse max scatter, but I dont know if that translates to 10% worse damage.
The biggest difference is the 6.1 second reload of the T-34 when compared to the 5.3-5.7 second(Why is this variable?) reload of the PIV (Though the T-34 gets significantly better reload bonuses at veterancy)
As GachiGasm has pointed out, you have kind of left out some crucial information.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
as far as main gun ai performance is concerned, i did an analysis quite a while back in this post, and your estimate is quite accurate. the t-34/76 takes about 8-10% more shots (15-20% more time due to inferior reload) for a squad kill than the ost pz.iv between max and mid range using the cannon alone. at point blank this difference shrinks to zero and both perform essentially the same.
your conclusion on the mgs is also on point, though one major advantage the pz.iv has over the t-34 is that most of its mg dps comes from the coax and pintle, and thus is omnidirectional. this is especially important in cqc situations, where the t-34 is much less effective than the pz.iv.
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
I actually think all tanks should get the t34 treatment where standing in front of it ias a bad idea... Remove some of the RNG of requiring the cannon to deter infantry from walking at it.
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I actually think all tanks should get the t34 treatment where standing in front of it ias a bad idea... Remove some of the RNG of requiring the cannon to deter infantry from walking at it.
Posts: 5279
That won't work without a veterancy overhaul for all tanks, because the MGs scale very badly as the game goes on and enemy infantry gets lower target sizes with vet and medium cover becomes more abundant. They're also way worse at chasing retreating squads.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I would be happy with knowing that if I park a tank behind an unsupported AT gun I don't need an RNG roll to actually kill it. Chip damage would be great.
The mg treatment the t34 got is great. Even buffing the hull mg on all tanks would make a difference I think.
Beyond that, in regards to cover, perhaps the coaxial and pintles, partiallyignoring cover could help remedy that variable (the mgs are shooting from above)
But if all that happened was a hull mg buff I think the consistency and fear of tanks would be a great improvement. Vetted infantry not being as scared seems OK to me but team weapons would still suffer and that would be great
Posts: 5279
At least there should be some consistency.
Same times of units having completely different behavior with little way of informing the player are solution that are not elegant and should be avoided.
I agree that having Hull mg improved would be a good idea since it would even promote better maneuvering of the vehicle.
Posts: 1392
Well, the tests seem to imply that the T-34s hull and coaxial MGs are better than the PIV's, though it doesn't support the assertion that they differ in the "Focus Fire" property". Perhaps that isnt what you meant, though. (More than just one test would be nice, incidentally)
I have heard before that the T34/76 and t34/85 do have abnormally strong hull/coaxial machine guns, though knowing the exact statistics would be nice. I'm not certain, but haven't the T34s MGs been tweaked in a patch in the last half-year?
Posts: 1563
Ye and how many brainsells one must have to use penal/Cons/Riflemen vs grens at long range? And in equal cover IS will win vs Grens.
Posts: 1563
Posts: 213
Can we have the VSL's new stg's to work more like semi auto instead full auto similar to Para's m1 carbines. It feels really weird to see the VSL's grens optimal range change based on weather the stg model is alive or not.
Posts: 1515
Penals and Rifles beat grens(non upgraded of course) from every range though.
Posts: 1563
I think you never actually tried to fight grens with Penals and Rifles at long range(max even) did you.
Not really. Penals beat them at long range (but are also 60 MP more expensive). Rifles lose to grens long range but obliterate them close and medium range. Fully upgraded rifles (double BAR) will not necessarily win vs grens with MG42 at long range cover to cover (outside of cover they will due to the sheer ROF from BARs). Assuming both are vet3. I don't remember ever winning an engagement cover to cover vs vet3 grens with LMGs vs my BARred rifles. Perhaps once or twice due to luck.
Posts: 1515
I think you never actually tried to fight grens with Penals and Rifles at long range(max even) did you.
Posts: 1563
I have tried to fight grens with rifles when I first started playing, tried to fight them yesterday and even the day before that. Fought grens many times on long range to know that you do not fight grens at long range, neither the volks, ever, cover to cover. So yeah, I have been engaged in rifles vs grens at long range same green cover.
You can test it out in cheat mode, you'll find that grens will win most of the time.
Posts: 1515
why don't you do that test and find out what happens. Remember i said un upgraded grens and get back to me.
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