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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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6 Jan 2021, 03:57 AM
#441
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578



some makes a fuss about spotting scopes, but why ukf tank commander vision are not look into? or su85 focus sight?

Probably because they are attending to the more obviously op things to bring them back in line

E.g. su85 nerf as well.

I think the patch is doing a fine job of making small changes that won't upset the apple cart but deals with outliers

6 Jan 2021, 04:28 AM
#442
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794


Probably because they are attending to the more obviously op things to bring them back in line

E.g. su85 nerf as well.

I think the patch is doing a fine job of making small changes that won't upset the apple cart but deals with outliers



Yes that is the thing. su85 brought in line, then subsequent followup to nerf brumbar, back to square 1.1!

and replacing vsl with stg as shown, made a drastic impact on their firepower as a doctrine ability. we already removed the RA bonus without any compensation!

yet sov got penal buffs, which can dominate grens in early long range enagagement.
mobilised reserves and 7man cons are buff or compensated with changes!

For example;


Conscripts

Sandbag build time from 13 seconds to 18
Veterancy 1 grants +35% increased build speed
Mobilized reserves munition upgrade to the squad Reserves no longer grants +20% veterancy gain.
Mobilized Reserves now grants +20% veterancy gain to Conscripts and Penal Battalion.
Reverted change to veterancy gain; now once again gain +20% veterancy when upgraded.

6 Jan 2021, 05:08 AM
#443
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

Cool to see the VSL StG-44 is being tried out, thanks!

I do have a feeling that they might need some of their RA bonus back, though. Whatever minor buff the upgrade could receive, I would prefer it not to be a firepower increase. That's what the G43 upgrade is for.
6 Jan 2021, 05:12 AM
#444
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



su85 brought in line,


the SU-85 was never a problem... in fact the JT/ELE/ISU were all much bigger fishes to fry for teamgames... but only the ISU got nerfed for some reason
6 Jan 2021, 05:16 AM
#445
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 05:12 AMgbem


the SU-85 was never a problem... in fact the JT/ELE/ISU were all much bigger fishes to fry for teamgames... but only the ISU got nerfed for some reason



It lost 10 range on its AI shells, a capability the others in its class never had in the first place.
6 Jan 2021, 05:18 AM
#446
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979




It lost 10 range on its AI shells, a capability the others in its class never had in the first place.


well the point is the JT/ELE/ISU are all cancerous units in 4v4 teamgames... and id rather see all 3 of them nerfed especially when considering that its counters just got some nerfs...
6 Jan 2021, 05:22 AM
#447
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 05:18 AMgbem


well the point is the JT/ELE/ISU are all cancerous units in 4v4 teamgames... and id rather see all 3 of them nerfed especially when considering that its counters just got some nerfs...


4v4 is all about fun. nerfing those heavies for 4v4 will make them useless in 2v2.

besides countering those heavies in 4v4 is nothing special.

6 Jan 2021, 05:25 AM
#448
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 05:12 AMgbem


the SU-85 was never a problem... in fact the JT/ELE/ISU were all much bigger fishes to fry for teamgames... but only the ISU got nerfed for some reason


su85 is a problem in 2v2, especially laney maps.

su85 is dirt cheap for this performance and vet abilities. while it is fixed turret, it is fast to hunt down retreating tanks!

while i accept brumbar nerf to its bunker buster, taking another 10 from armor is too much.

basically this tip about 60TD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jChxhrws9S8
6 Jan 2021, 05:27 AM
#449
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



4v4 is all about fun. nerfing those heavies for 4v4 will make them useless in 2v2.

besides countering those heavies in 4v4 is nothing special.



soo keeping heavies OP in 4v4 is fun.... and nerfing their counters hard is even more fun... take your fun and shove it some place else...
6 Jan 2021, 05:32 AM
#450
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



su85 is a problem in 2v2, especially laney maps.

su85 is dirt cheap for this performance and vet abilities. while it is fixed turret, it is fast to hunt down retreating tanks!

while i accept brumbar nerf to its bunker buster, taking another 10 from armor is too much.

basically this tip about 60TD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jChxhrws9S8


if you cant beat the SU-85 with a pakwall + panther then im afraid thats on you...
6 Jan 2021, 05:38 AM
#451
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 05:32 AMgbem


if you cant beat the SU-85 with a pakwall + panther then im afraid thats on you...


who say i cant? that is besides a pakwall + panther cost tons more. and pak are getting nerfs against rushing sov infantry!

im saying su85 is way too cost effective. 60TD are just too dominant in 2v2.

su85 30% to 20% vet nerf is the bare minimum. then they had to deduct brumbar armor for no reasons, while free passes to KV and Churchills and BD Shermans!
6 Jan 2021, 05:45 AM
#453
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 356



I don't think vanilla stock 5 man grens is ever gonna be a thing.


It is though in a sense. They're called volksgrens, and all the allied infantry get tuned to their power level.

One MG42 can't compensate for four weak infantry squads that are spread out over the map. If the MG42 was really that strong people would only build MG42s.

After rifleman and sections got buffed to compete with volksgrens they wreck 4 man grens in every way. VSL and earlier Pgren fix the faction somewhat with a stronger mid-game, but stalling for a mid-game powerspike doesn't help gren performance at all. If the only viable strat is to rush midgame infantry than OST players will never not pick assgrens or ostruppen since they can at least capture a little bit of territory while bleeding manpower the entire early game.

Grens desperately need a better role other than "worse volks but with MemeG-42".
6 Jan 2021, 06:52 AM
#454
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



su85 is a problem in 2v2, especially laney maps.

su85 is dirt cheap for this performance and vet abilities. while it is fixed turret, it is fast to hunt down retreating tanks!

while i accept brumbar nerf to its bunker buster, taking another 10 from armor is too much.

basically this tip about 60TD!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jChxhrws9S8


with panther acc buff it should counter su-85 more easier than before cause it won't make a missing shot.
I think multiple TD are easier to counter than multiple panther in team mode.
example
4x panther vs 5x su-85 if panther run though them I think only 1 panther will lose .since su-85 have no turret they have no chance when panther can closed.
6 Jan 2021, 07:08 AM
#455
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 06:52 AMvgfgff


with panther acc buff it should counter su-85 more easier than before cause it won't make a missing shot.
I think multiple TD are easier to counter than multiple panther in team mode.
example
4x panther vs 5x su-85 if panther run though them I think only 1 panther will lose .since su-85 have no turret they have no chance when panther can closed.


any buff will help panther against su85. but i will not use the words 'much easier'. panther still has slow turret etc. su85 is still greatness. brumbar armor nerf is still unfair.

the panther mass meme in 4v4 dont happen these days, you lose all infantry presence.

in fact, it is more common to have sov mass t3476 + antitank overwatch for the meme.
6 Jan 2021, 07:57 AM
#456
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 06:52 AMvgfgff


with panther acc buff it should counter su-85 more easier than before cause it won't make a missing shot.
I think multiple TD are easier to counter than multiple panther in team mode.
example
4x panther vs 5x su-85 if panther run though them I think only 1 panther will lose .since su-85 have no turret they have no chance when panther can closed.

That is simply incorrect:

A Panther firing on SU-85 at range 50 has 72% chance to score direct hit if stationary.
6 Jan 2021, 08:04 AM
#457
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Jan 2021, 07:57 AMVipper

That is simply incorrect:

A Panther firing on SU-85 at range 50 has 72% chance to score direct hit if stationary.


ya SU85 is greatness.

I dont delve into stats, but in actual plays, i can tell.

I wonder if you flip the question around, how much % can SU85 fire back at panther from 50 range.

Also iirc SU85 rate of fire is better!
6 Jan 2021, 08:44 AM
#458
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



ya SU85 is greatness.

I dont delve into stats, but in actual plays, i can tell.

I wonder if you flip the question around, how much % can SU85 fire back at panther from 50 range.

Also iirc SU85 rate of fire is better!


Panther has about a third more hp, panther will pen every shot that hits, su85 pens about 88% at vet 0 if i did my math right.

Su85 can selfspot at the cost of speed and mobility and 360 vision. Has no ai and no turret, but 60 range and decent to good rof esp vetted.

The panther has a turret, more armour and hp, ai , a pintle , high pen, 50 range wich is 10 less the su85 but 10 more then medsiums, decent rof to good rof when vetted, heavy crush greatly increasing its mobility, and until vet 3 the panther is faster and turns faster.

So if the su85 is greatness the panther is godlike.
6 Jan 2021, 09:25 AM
#459
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



Yes that is the thing. su85 brought in line, then subsequent followup to nerf brumbar, back to square 1.1!

and replacing vsl with stg as shown, made a drastic impact on their firepower as a doctrine ability. we already removed the RA bonus without any compensation!

You don't compensate for well deserved nerfs to overpowered units.
Brummbar and VSL belong to that category.
6 Jan 2021, 10:40 AM
#460
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177



Panther has about a third more hp, panther will pen every shot that hits, su85 pens about 88% at vet 0 if i did my math right.

Su85 can selfspot at the cost of speed and mobility and 360 vision. Has no ai and no turret, but 60 range and decent to good rof esp vetted.

The panther has a turret, more armour and hp, ai , a pintle , high pen, 50 range wich is 10 less the su85 but 10 more then medsiums, decent rof to good rof when vetted, heavy crush greatly increasing its mobility, and until vet 3 the panther is faster and turns faster.

So if the su85 is greatness the panther is godlike.


Agree SU-85 never win vs panther by 1vs1. or even with have support unit/call in for both vehicle panther always win.

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