[Winter Balance Update] USF Feedback

100 barrage range at vet1 shoudnt be a problem

And what unit will be used to counter M8?

Wound be fair in that case that Stug-E also get a 100 range barrage?

Pack Howie was one of the most OP units and its cost was cheap in consideration of its power, thanks god it being nerfed.

In short: Howie power was nerfed to match its price so it doesn't need to be cheaper.

The pak howitzer/scott was a substitute for the fact that USF is missing stock rocket arty units. How was it more OP than the stock axis rocket arty that can wipe squads with single barrage?
Now that these units are useless, in team games especially, USF team game late game will be hopeless.

"Balancing" units to the point they are rendered useless is a job being done poorly.

And what unit will be used to counter M8?

Wound be fair in that case that Stug-E also get a 100 range barrage?

The AT equivalent of unit you use to counter 120mm.

Flanking with indirect fire units isn't exactly the intended use of INDIRECT fire units.
That's like being forced to flank HMG with a mortar.
Tho I do get all the butthurt about the scott autofire and do hope barrage ends up not useless.

Of course I don't mean flank, but if the enemy has the counter present in that area, operate elsewhere. One of the biggest boons of the Scott is its mobility. Assuming the barrage still functions well, that will be used when AT is present, maybe even on the AT to push it off and allow the Scott room to roam

And what unit will be used to counter M8?

Evrything that can kill it currently

Wound be fair in that case that Stug-E also get a 100 range barrage?

I did not know stugE is indirect fire

Evrything that can kill it currently

But it would still be able to barrage on the move and from 100 range make it more dificult to kill a unit that is already difficult to kill.

I did not know stugE is indirect fire

Stug-E is assault gun for indirect fire support using a gun with similar caliber as M8.

But it would still be able to barrage on the move and from 100 range make it more dificult to kill a unit that is already difficult to kill.

Scott barrage cant wipe with one salvo so 20 more range isn't really game breaking.

Scott barrage cant wipe with one salvo so 20 more range isn't really game breaking.

Having unit that is very difficult to counter does not mean if fine even if it can not wipe with a single salvo...

Having unit that is very difficult to counter does not mean if fine even if it can not wipe with a single salvo...

True enough we should cut Elefant and Jagtiger range to ATG one. Same for any rocket arty unit and cut arty units range to pakhowi range at most.

Since we are looking at minor problems with base factions this patch, can we also please add actual sandbags to REs, too?

Before the "Tank traps are sandbags for REs" argument,
Tank traps are:
-Don't provide enough directional cover for 5-men squads
-If you build 2 of them, you always need to wire them off since unlike sandbags, they will provide cover to enemy if built near cap flags.

It'd be a nice consistency change (and a buff to REs) between the faction engineers that can build green cover, I believe. It's not like REs provide a lot of utility already so they can use some utility buffs like being able to build convenient sandbags instead of tank traps for heavy cover.

Of course I don't mean flank, but if the enemy has the counter present in that area, operate elsewhere. One of the biggest boons of the Scott is its mobility. Assuming the barrage still functions well, that will be used when AT is present, maybe even on the AT to push it off and allow the Scott room to roam

So do you think it's still think it's worth 75 fuel?

I mean at this point its a shorter range Mortar Half-Track with less scatter for more than twice the fuel.

I mean at this point its a shorter range Mortar Half-Track with less scatter for more than twice the fuel.

It's significantly more survivable than the Mortar HT, though, and the shells land faster (Particularly closer range, i believe)

It's significantly more survivable than the Mortar HT, though, and the shells land faster (Particularly closer range, i believe)

the scott is not worth buying at all now, I'd rather get an M4.
I get the butthurt about autofire, but then the barrage needs to actually do something besides tickle the enemy.

Give it a WP barrage. That way it can actually deal with pakwalls as intended.

Give it a WP barrage. That way it can actually deal with pakwalls as intended.

That would be nice. Would need to share a cooldown with regular barrage and probably have a delay on the main gun after wp rounds finish. Otherwise could get some really easy chase wipes

So do you think it's still think it's worth 75 fuel?

I do think it certain scenarios it has its applications. The thing about having indirect out the ass is they won't (or shouldn't) all be viable in every scenario all the time. Even with the shorter range the unit will work well on the defensive as AT will likely be behind enemy front line, the mobility will let it escape armour and reposition where needed. The barrages are ever useful. It's not an auto pick but it'll eb decent.

I do think it certain scenarios it has its applications.

That wasn't the question lol. Is it really impossible for me to say that I don't think it's bad but it should lose 10 fuel off the cost?

Like I'm not saying it has no applications. It's just been nerfed significantly, so I don't see how it's still worth the same price. You're just paying for mobility at this point, otherwise you'll get a pak howy

That wasn't the question lol. Is it really impossible for me to say that I don't think it's bad but it should lose 10 fuel off the cost?

Like I'm not saying it has no applications. It's just been nerfed significantly, so I don't see how it's still worth the same price. You're just paying for mobility at this point, otherwise you'll get a pak howy

That's fair. I can't say for certain as my games with the mod are limited, and my games with usf in the mod even more so though I'd rather er on the side of caution due to how oppressive the Scott could be. Plus if we knock of 10 fuel we've more than double undone the back breaking nerf the Jackson got a little back and I'm not sure I'm ready for that

Plus if we knock of 10 fuel we've more than double undone the back breaking nerf the Jackson got a little back and I'm not sure I'm ready for that

Also fair. That jackson "nerf" was just lip service lol, they really should've done more

I would point out though that in the same patch as the jackson cost change, they also nerfed the scott. So this is it's second round of nerfs

That's fair. I can't say for certain as my games with the mod are limited, and my games with usf in the mod even more so though I'd rather er on the side of caution due to how oppressive the Scott could be. Plus if we knock of 10 fuel we've more than double undone the back breaking nerf the Jackson got a little back and I'm not sure I'm ready for that

I only play USF in competitive and OKW in standard custom games. Scott can only be a potential menace in 1v1s. A big maybe in 2v2s. It does not have the wipe potential of werfers or stukas. It can induce a steady bleed through barrages and that's it. Those steady bleeds are much much more impactful in 1v1s than in 3v3+. Hence why you seldom see USF (frontpage has a picture of factions which are most played in all modes, USF is dead last in teamgames) in teamgames, and if you do, you will exclusively see calliope since E8 is not that impactful once Panthers and heavies start rolling out and Pershing's AI has been nerfed to the ground, compared to other heavies/units. So people play Calliope for mass infantry and Jacksons to keep the heavies at bay.

I've played a decent amount of the patch preview, more so the v1 and v2. Sander was right in one of his posts about the new role of Scott and I agree with him but the pak howi autofire AOE nerf is too big. Every game I used it, it had little to no impact out of barrages. Even against mass blobs coming your way, one shot would not punish the enemy for blobbing and they would immediately start moving their units or wait it out until werfer or stuka comes online to delete it or force it off, long enough for Obers or Grens to push in through yellow cover.
Scott is downright useless in 3v3. Tried using it and for all it's mobility, the cancerous way of using it is just too high. Not being able to fire over buildings in anything but barrages and ground targets is way too micro intensive, especially against mobile opponents. The barrage is accurate though. I can see it's use in 1v1s where you want to displace an enemy MG or AT gun or infantry behind heavy cover. So basically, it's a mobile barrage unit. Autofire is gutted.
Again. This is all 3v3. I am pretty sure these units are quite balanced in 1v1. USF is one of the stronger factions in 1v1 due to their versatility. Rocket arty is not as important and the population is limited. Tank dives are seldom and most people get cold feet.