[Winter Balance Update] USF Feedback

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 08:20 AMJon2020

Just so we're *clear here*, I am fairly certain that there is only one "Walking Stuka" in the game, and that is the rocket artillery. I clearly stated "Walking Stuka" - to be clear
I was trying to give you an oopsie out for trying to compare a barrage only vehicle that delays armour by minutes to an auto fire super mortar that could wipe squads at any time without warning.

Even if you hear the sound effect, retreating your troops can inadvertently cause you to lose more to the strike. Any decent player will mix it up and attack your retreat line, knowing that you may run or reposition your troops when you hear the rockets going off, and end up retreating or even just moving into the explosion. Some maps have smaller passageways where dispersing your forces can't always be done in a rapid or effective way (Port of Hamburg, Essen Steelworks, Lanzerath Ambush, etc.). Surely you're aware of all of this. Then again, you didn't know what a Walking Stuka was, and you have a "#stalinwept" signature on your profile, so I can only imagine the level of sarcasm you bring to an honest conversation.
the enemy outplaying you or map issues doesn't make the comparison better if you have an issue with the Stuka make a stuka thread, don't try to use it to somehow justify the pak howi being too strong. And for the record, the audio cue is what in part makes the Stuka OK. It's not a wipe out of nowhere like the pak howi

A lone allied medium tank won't make it very far getting tangled up with even a single Raketenwerfer/Pak 40 and a single snare, mine, etc. If you played 4v4 COH2, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. Getting a Walking Stuka out at CP 3 is much more devastating in 4v4 team games, and doesn't carry nearly the same risk that rushing a medium tank does. I routinely do more damage with a Walking Stuka than I do with the T34/76, which doesn't scale nearly as well into the late game. Ask any Allied player what he fears more from OKW: A Walking Stuka or a Panzer IV?
you are missing the point entirely. Fuel cost is not insignificant. The Stuka costs more than regular proper arty, and building it delays proper armour by minutes for a chance to wipe every minute or so. The pak howi costs no fuel and delays nothing while possibly wiping every few seconds.
I appreciate the condescension, but nothing you say can distract nor detract from the reality that the US faction is non-doctrinally lacking in strong artillery and armor (and, thanks to this latest patch, is getting even worse), which was the point I think I've very clearly made by now. So, if you want to nitpick and play semantics games with me in an effort to deny reality and tell me that the sky is green, that's your prerogative. I've made my case and it's my opinion after spending a lot of time playing 4v4s, which I suspect you aren't too familiar with. Conversely, maybe you know very well what I'm talking about but aren't objective enough to acknowledge it here. That's fine, too.
I know you are pretty new here but I'm well aware of the plight of team games and also that usf does quite well in them despite the lack of rocket arty.
P.S. An OKW player can usually field the Walking Stuka before a Soviet, British, or American player can field a medium tank. By the time the Allied player gets a tank with his fuel, you can easily have multiple Raketenwerfers and snare-capable infantry to crush it. There is a reason some expert Soviet players will create a Katyusha before they create a T34/76. The same can be said for OKW players who opt for the early Walking Stuka. It has the potential to do a heck of a lot more damage, and survive for a lot longer into the match. It's often more efficient. You don't have to keep it too close to the danger on the battlefield and can still inflict a lot of damage.

I'm aware how early an okw player can field rocket arty. I've been playing this game since before it released and understand that if you play passively the Stuka will punish that. A properly micro medium will be equally devistating and higher impact however. Not that it's relevant to the discussion outside a reference point as to how expensive the Stuka is.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 10:01 AMHannibal

Regarding the v2 Scott change:

Why so much focus on the barrage?
USF already has a mortar and the PaK Howie, another mortar-like unit is gratuitous. If it is supposed to be the replacement for rocket artillery, a swap of Calliope and Scott would fit better.
And USF also has a doctrinal mortar carrier already.

Overall a mini-Brummbar like function would fit way, way better in terms of unit diversity.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 15:37 PMGiaA

Uhm no. Op HE sherman fills that role.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 10:01 AMHannibal

Regarding the v2 Scott change:

Why so much focus on the barrage?
USF already has a mortar and the PaK Howie, another mortar-like unit is gratuitous. If it is supposed to be the replacement for rocket artillery, a swap of Calliope and Scott would fit better.
And USF also has a doctrinal mortar carrier already.

Overall a mini-Brummbar like function would fit way, way better in terms of unit diversity.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 15:57 PMSander93

There's simply too much overlap in USF's roster for any meaningful/healthy swaps. Making the Calliope stock would likely mean a doctrinal Scott is never used/needed again. Making it like a (doctrinal) mini Brummbar would heavily overlap with the 105mm Sherman. An armored and highly mobile medium barrage vehicle is actually the most unique role I could think of.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 15:59 PMVipper

Then simply make some of the these option (mortar/pak/Scott/HE Sherman/Major barrage) doctrinal.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 16:00 PMSander93

I didn't say stock roster. They have too much indirect fire overlap in their entire roster. It's the same with all the Sherman variants. Swapping all kinds of things isn't going to fix that.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 10:01 AMHannibal

Regarding the v2 Scott change:

Why so much focus on the barrage?
USF already has a mortar and the PaK Howie, another mortar-like unit is gratuitous. If it is supposed to be the replacement for rocket artillery, a swap of Calliope and Scott would fit better.
And USF also has a doctrinal mortar carrier already.

Overall a mini-Brummbar like function would fit way, way better in terms of unit diversity.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 15:57 PMSander93

There's simply too much overlap in USF's roster for any meaningful/healthy swaps. Making the Calliope stock would likely mean a doctrinal Scott is never used/needed again. Making it like a (doctrinal) mini Brummbar would heavily overlap with the 105mm Sherman. An armored and highly mobile medium barrage vehicle (i.e. a Pak Howitzer on tracks) is actually the most unique role I could think of. This way, USF has a stock indirect fire option for all stages of the game.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 16:17 PMGrumpy

These changes make it too similar to the MHT. I'd rather they gave the barrage a decent range like 120-135. The 80 range makes it just another mortar.

I do like the idea of switching the Calliope and the Scott. That would make the USF better in team games.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 16:40 PMSupport Sapper

Swap the scott with sherman 105. Make 105 a bumbar clone, neft/remove sherman HE, reduce cost by 5 fuels.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 16:00 PMSander93

I didn't say stock roster. They have too much indirect fire overlap in their entire roster. It's the same with all the Sherman variants. Relic should've come up with more diverse units (like the Jumbo). Swapping all kinds of things now isn't going to fix that.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 20:14 PMEsxile

They overlap because at some moments the various balance teams make them overlap.

Pakhowi was at the beginning an almost only barrage unit and Scott an almost only auto-fire unit. Then the various balance teams decided to made them more similar.

Buff the pakhowi barrage and remove its auto-fire, do the opposite for the Scott and you have two different units. You have the pakhowi be like a mix between rocket arty and field Arty in its purpose and scott a lighter brumbar.

Jump back to quoted post9 Dec 2020, 16:48 PMSupremeStefan

I have no idea why scott barrage is still only 80 range, if they want buff barrage, range change should be first.