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[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

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28 Nov 2020, 12:38 PM
#81
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

...If you want the 1v1 meta to stop being stale, then you simply have to buff them. There isn't any other solution that really exists for it.


Or simply stop the power creep and nerf the allied infatry instead, since Grenadier have already received buffs...
28 Nov 2020, 13:27 PM
#82
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 186 | Subs: 1

''Panzer V Panther (OKW and Ostheer Variant)
Given the Panther's lackluster veterancy 2 bonuses and the unit's reliance on accurate shots over rate of fire, we are improving the accuracy of Panthers that have gained veterancy.
- Panther accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.035 to 0.065/0.05/0.04
- Veterancy 2 now provides a +10% increased accuracy''

I don't think the panther being a better tank destroyer is good for the balance. I think it will become too oppressive after these changes.
If Axis tank destroying capabilities need to be buffed then perhaps buffing the JP4 and the Stug might be a better route. Something like, higher pen for the JP4 and 60 range for the Stug.
28 Nov 2020, 13:33 PM
#83
avatar of Starco

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2020, 12:38 PMVipper

Or simply stop the power creep and nerf the allied infatry instead, since Grenadier have already received buffs...


Allied infantry is and should be better than axis one.
Allied infantry is more expensive, needs actual macro/micro in order to buy weapons (it's not just an upgrade, you have to buy upgrades that have a considerable cost just in order to be able to buy some, then you have to add the time/micro to be somewhere near weapons racks and then only spend ammunition to buy them).

Grenadiers are just fine, they perform greatly as a standard unit; they are versatile and strong enough. This is without saying that as Ost, either in 1v1's or 4v4's, you are never supposed to win on your opponent with the same number of troops but rather use the HMG's in order to win.

That is how axis is supposed to be played, if you don't play it the way it should be played and encounter problems, the blame is on you not the game.
28 Nov 2020, 13:44 PM
#84
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

''Panzer V Panther (OKW and Ostheer Variant)
Given the Panther's lackluster veterancy 2 bonuses and the unit's reliance on accurate shots over rate of fire, we are improving the accuracy of Panthers that have gained veterancy.
- Panther accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.035 to 0.065/0.05/0.04
- Veterancy 2 now provides a +10% increased accuracy''

I don't think the panther being a better tank destroyer is good for the balance. I think it will become too oppressive after these changes.
If Axis tank destroying capabilities need to be buffed then perhaps buffing the JP4 and the Stug might be a better route. Something like, higher pen for the JP4 and 60 range for the Stug.


In regards to the panther accuracy, it really just solidifies panthers being almost completely reliable to chase down heavies which is its primary job (not like you see them anyway).

Its just going to be more capable to do the same with mediums.

28 Nov 2020, 13:46 PM
#85
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Didn't the target size of mediums get buffed a few patches ago so that they can get a spot in the meta? Now the Panther which is already too strong and needs a nerf instead gets a massive accuracy buff while the Jakckson and su85 get nerfed at vet 3 while they're fighting 234 armour panzer IVs?

Very interesting.
28 Nov 2020, 14:15 PM
#89
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3118 | Subs: 2

''Panzer V Panther (OKW and Ostheer Variant)
Given the Panther's lackluster veterancy 2 bonuses and the unit's reliance on accurate shots over rate of fire, we are improving the accuracy of Panthers that have gained veterancy.
- Panther accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.035 to 0.065/0.05/0.04
- Veterancy 2 now provides a +10% increased accuracy''

I don't think the panther being a better tank destroyer is good for the balance. I think it will become too oppressive after these changes.
If Axis tank destroying capabilities need to be buffed then perhaps buffing the JP4 and the Stug might be a better route. Something like, higher pen for the JP4 and 60 range for the Stug.


Thinking about it I also do not get it.
The Panther is "suffering" from high scatter especially on the move, not from low accuracy while standing.

IF the Panther needs a buff in that regard, either reduce scatter (I'd suggest angular scatter to go down to 5-6) OR increase moving accuracy.

That general accuracy buff partially reverts the medium buffs as Stormjager pointed out and does not help much vs heavies anyway. The Panther does not need to be even more oppressive vs mediums.
28 Nov 2020, 14:29 PM
#91
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Without having tested it, why is a universal MG buff planned? MGs are already good enough as they are now that most indirect fire has been nerfed or is getting nerfed soon.
28 Nov 2020, 14:37 PM
#92
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366



Thinking about it I also do not get it.
The Panther is "suffering" from high scatter especially on the move, not from low accuracy while standing.

IF the Panther needs a buff in that regard, either reduce scatter (I'd suggest angular scatter to go down to 5-6) OR increase moving accuracy.

That general accuracy buff partially reverts the medium buffs as Stormjager pointed out and does not help much vs heavies anyway. The Panther does not need to be even more oppressive vs mediums.


Hence why I said its better at chasing down mediums (not including veteracy/tank commander).

New

0.065x20=1.3=130%
0.05x20=1=100%
0.04x20=0.8=80%

Old

0.06x21=1.26=126%
0.045x21=0.94=94%
0.035x21=0.73=73%

The panther is actually better than before. I think just tinkling the moving accuracy may be enough but ill be wary if thats done (edit, this goes against what I said about the panther being better at chasing down tanks, probably better to make it vet only).
28 Nov 2020, 15:04 PM
#94
avatar of Phoenix101

Posts: 63

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2020, 20:58 PMKatitof
T34 Ram is being "demo charged" out of the game.
No one is going to use it on a vetted tank.
Make it so it does not immobilize T34 afterwards then just soft-removing it from the game completely and if you really want to, then don't pretend, just remove it and replace it with something different.

Penal adjustment isn't going to do much to their late game scaling, because they suffer from exact same problems cons did prior to 7th man - specifically, vet alone will never scale any infantry squad into late game.

Everything else looks solid.


"Oh no, there is a downside to an ability, what to do, what to do... Now I have to think before I ram and rocket strafe a 250 fuel heavy to instant death, omg, so unfair"
28 Nov 2020, 15:09 PM
#95
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



Thinking about it I also do not get it.
The Panther is "suffering" from high scatter especially on the move, not from low accuracy while standing.

IF the Panther needs a buff in that regard, either reduce scatter (I'd suggest angular scatter to go down to 5-6) OR increase moving accuracy.

That general accuracy buff partially reverts the medium buffs as Stormjager pointed out and does not help much vs heavies anyway. The Panther does not need to be even more oppressive vs mediums.


0.065 and 0.5 moving accrucy is 0.0325, only a 8% chance increase, and not that big a buff?

if accuracy remain 0.06 and increase moving accruacy to 0.55, it becomes 0.033.

can you increase moving accrucy by 0.01s or has to be every 0.05?

It is panther slow rof (until vet3) that is troubling to take out 640hp 60td or allies heavy.
28 Nov 2020, 15:13 PM
#97
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Didn't the target size of mediums get buffed a few patches ago so that they can get a spot in the meta? Now the Panther which is already too strong and needs a nerf instead gets a massive accuracy buff while the Jakckson and su85 get nerfed at vet 3 while they're fighting 234 armour panzer IVs?

Very interesting.

M36/Su-85/FF have little trouble hitting and penetrating the PzIV even up to range 60.

And they already get (tree times bigger than the one suggested) accuracy and penetration bonuses with veterancy with vet while being more accurate to being with.
28 Nov 2020, 15:20 PM
#98
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

while the Jakckson and su85 get nerfed at vet 3 while they're fighting 234 armour panzer IVs?


Literally nothing changes in regards to Jackson and SU-85 versus 234 armor Panzer IVs.
28 Nov 2020, 15:27 PM
#99
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



Literally nothing changes in regards to Jackson and SU-85 versus 234 armor Panzer IVs.


That is good.

Still doesn't answer why the OP Panther gets buffed.
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Lady Xenarra: @Willy Pete The lack of April Fools this year is odd lol
Last Wednesday, 01:34 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone not dead yet. when that happens the font will switch to Papyrus :*(
Last Wednesday, 00:16 AM
dasheepeh: it was an honor guys :guyokay:
Last Tuesday, 20:34 PM
aerafield: yeah I already prepared my "Can't believe there's comic mode for the 10 daily visitors even on this April 1st" :guyokay:
Last Tuesday, 20:29 PM
Rosbone: @dasheepeh I guess that means this site is officially dead :guyokay:
Last Tuesday, 20:19 PM
dasheepeh: no comic sans font for april 1st this year?
Last Tuesday, 19:56 PM
Willy Pete: @Lady Xenarra this you? https://i.imgflip.com/3e4thi.jpg
Last Tuesday, 02:53 AM
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
Last Tuesday, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy :clap:
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Soheil: Coh2 still broken server ?
25 Mar 2025, 18:27 PM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. :snfQuinn:.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Willy Pete: @Nickbn you didn't ask a question, and this is a chat box...
20 Mar 2025, 13:11 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: #RelicModdedEchoChamber
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
webdesign-muenchen-w: @Rosbone it is sick
14 Mar 2025, 22:09 PM
aerafield: @adamírcz aren't the first two disconnects free every day?
14 Mar 2025, 19:26 PM
Rosbone: It is so unlike Relic to punish its fans and community.
14 Mar 2025, 12:07 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: Just making mistake after mistake after mistake.
13 Mar 2025, 19:57 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: For a thing they could fix in minutes. Literally minutes.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: + 33% dmg rear hit was best deal ever.
12 Mar 2025, 04:00 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
theekvn: you rather go 76 to unity Whizbang 2.0 or go home.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: also US tier 4 is 145f and Sherman pen 140 nerf is too much.
12 Mar 2025, 03:52 AM
theekvn: Whizbang lock behind CP, meanwhile stuka is techtree progress
12 Mar 2025, 03:51 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! :P
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Willy Pete: Cool you wanna lose your stock lategame arty too then?
06 Mar 2025, 03:20 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. :rofl:
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
Soheil: Coh2 is dead , full of map hackers , and lelic knows that but ...
04 Mar 2025, 01:26 AM
aerafield: Oh how I missed the weird spam bots, welcome back :banana:
03 Mar 2025, 13:05 PM
situsgbo777: Platform game online terpercaya dengan berbagai pilihan permainan seru dan peluang menang besar. Nikmati pengalaman bermain terbaik hanya di GBO777
03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
OKSpitfire: @aerafield that does sound familiar
02 Mar 2025, 09:06 AM

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