[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

Allied TDs too easily counter axis heavies, the pen change is more than fair.

Best first version of any balance patch in years, well done.

Quick first reaction:
Best 1.0 version of a big patch in a long time!

Fullagree When we discussed and made the changes, i thought the same. I have a good feeling that the most of the changes will stay and go into liveversion.

After all the years we are finally going into a close direction to a "balanced" game as far as we can have influence on that from modding and scope

Have fun everyone in playing and testing out the mod! Find the bugs for us

#RIP WC51 meta
#RIP Ostruppen meta

The Panther in turn can penetrate them back, but also has much higher health. The Panther also has a decent chance beat a Pershing or IS-2 one-on-one. It's hard to compare the Panther to things because it's in a class of it's own as a 'Tank Hunter', essentially a low-end Heavy Tank with a Tank Destroyer gun and Medium Tank mobility. But there are also Tiger and Tiger Ace. My worry is that with German tanks, especially Panther, excelling in nearly every category there is (with survivability being unmatched due to high armor, high health, blitz, and optional smoke), the late-game is still going to be Axis Tanks vs Allied Tank Destroyers, the latter being the only thing standing between the the Germans and Victory. Were it up to me I'd probably bring Heavy Tanks and Medium Tanks closer together so that Tank Destroyers didn't have to match the power of Heavy Tanks whilst nullifying Mediums.

Panther easily beats both Pershing and IS-2 in 1v1. Vet0 (vet3 all 3 tanks, panther will maybe beat them as RNG does not exclude Pershing and IS2 winning). Axis will still dominate late game with tanks. Especially since Panther had a substantial accuracy buff. Pershing should get an armour buff or some sort of ROF buff through veterancy.
Still, whether Pershing will be able to not cower in face of any AT gun, be it Panther, Stug, paks, raketen or just plain old JP4... with Pershing's low survivability, it will all boil down to spam Jacksons/SU85s vs generalist heavies. Nothing will change with regards to "don't let axis go late game to spam KTs, tigers, sturms and other malarkey". So teamgames still favor axis but I doubt anyone will even try to touch USF late game potential outside of calliope since wheraboos will just scream "jackson nerf, too OP".
One question: Is this the patch that was labeled as "core armies patch 2021 first quarter"?

Regarding balance: OK patch
Regarding QoL: Excellent patch

Bravo!

Overall good changes with only a few been questionable.

First Reaction:

Most of this looks very promising!

I would like someone representing the balance patch team to please explain why the USF Pak Howie isnt getting nerfed a bit more, specifically its autofire accuracy. Unless im misunderstanding exactly what the change to it is intended to be? Thanks!

Great stuff!

Great changes!

I did notice that the RE Volley Fire accuracy bug and Pioneer/CE vet 3 repair damage bug are not on the fixed list. Should existing bugs go in the old thread or new one?

Pioneer/CE vet 3 repair damage bug are not on the fixed list. Should existing bugs go in the old thread or new one?

I checked in live version and it seemed to work correctly, unless I missed something.

I did notice that the RE Volley Fire accuracy bug

Can you elaborate?

Can the ML/20 and the leFH 18 artillery be made more equivalent? Please either give ML/20 an ability or remove Counter Barrage from leFH 18. ML/20 lost its ability years ago.

+1 for removing counter battery. it is a nobrainer

Awesome changes, congratulations to the balance team!

Make T-34 ram as Vetted skill and remove RNG critcal damage is NO - NO. I wont pay a vet 1 tank for a 200 pen RAM, NEVER !

First Reaction:

Most of this looks very promising! However, I would like someone representing the balance patch team to please explain why the USF Pak Howie isnt getting nerfed a bit more, specifically its autofire accuracy. Thanks!

Guys, pls test all changes and especially the one you don't agree or you personally think are bad. We would love to get as much reliable feedback as it is possible.

Calliope needs a proper nerf it is way too strong at the moment. Slight veterancy adjustment is not going to cut it.

Eh typically
first page and complains
pls nerf usa still too stronk

However, I would like someone representing the balance patch team to please explain why the USF Pak Howie isnt getting nerfed a bit more, specifically its autofire accuracy. Thanks!

It's quite a significant AOE reduction. It shouldn't wound entire squads down to ~50% hp in one hit now. Reducing accuracy/scatter (even further) would turn it into an RNG cannon, which isn't very desirable for either side. AOE reduction with decent scatter is a lot more streamlined in terms of average performance.

All Allied Transport Half-Tracks (M5 Half-track and M3 Half-track)
A feature update to encourage the usage of non-upgraded transport half-tracks by acting as an alternative source of healing for the player, similar to the 251.
- USF M3 and M5, and Soviet M5 Half-tracks can now heal infantry in their hold when out of combat.
- M3 Medical Crate ability removed

HOORAY IT FINALLY HAPPEND, i was fighting for a change like this b4 previous patch

Finally unupgraded halftracks have a bit more use

EDIT: Just realized I mostly criticized. I like most of the changes, especially the QoL ones are exceptional! Thank you for the work! Down below are the ones I find questionable after reading the list.

Looks very nice overall, just a couple of things that came to my mind (all by gut feeling, have not tested the mod yet):
- Valentine build time seems slightly excessive to me
- Firefly rotation buffs: I am not sure if it needs it. Firefly felt already decent to me, and the changes make it closer to a slower driving version of the Jackson. Takes away a bit of uniqueness again, although UKF already has decent options. Also indirectly buffs the tulips. I'd rather apply a fix for PIATs.
- Penals need other changes in my opinion. Not sure which ones to be honest.
- Churchill should not have tank commander. This unit already synergizes well with a Firefly behind it, it should not be able to make a good spotter for it without putting itself far into the danger zone.

Some suggestions:
- regarding ram: I think the current change is fine. However you might consider adjusting vet1 requirements, maybe lowering them slightly would be suitable.
- additional suggestion to "secure mode" of Soviets: Actually it is a nice ability, but tanks are too valuable to use them for capturing. Could this ability get a capture and/or decapture rate buff so that is actually worth parking your expensive tank there instead of a 170/240 MP infantry squad?

Manual reload is like walking down the most beautiful field of flowers with the most beautiful girl on your side. Thanks alot for that!
HMG feel way more comfotable to use now.

I was surprised to see how many units got that and it´s actually refreshing.

I was having a sound bug once. All ingame sounds went silent as if the announcer was to tell me something. It went back to normal after a short time, i will keep an eye on that

Could someone pls explain, what does "manual reload" means? How does it work? Is there already any unit having it, like an example to understand.

Sniper
The following change was implemented to make it more difficult to wipe out an infantry squad through double shotting. In return, the ability win now reliably stun the targeted squad, even if models are
spaced out.
- Incendiary Shot aim-time from 2.75 to 3.5
- Incendiary Shot cost from 45 to 40
- Incendiary Shot will now reliably stun infantry squads.

Uhmmm... the touble tap wehrmacth sniper kills are cool, and always a fun moment in tournaments, allied units always have bigger squads anyway, this is inherently an awesome feature, don't remove or nerf too hard! thanks