Future Balance Items by Relic

Soviet industry change sounds good. I don't know if its enough. We'll have to see.

Regarding t70's killing power on the move: outside of the Soviet Industry Doctrine the fastest you can get a t70 is like 7:30 to 8 minutes. If I'm doing a rush stall to get that t70, I've probably started losing enough map control that I can expect a p4 at about the 10 minute mark. I have already pushed back my first t34 by at least a few minutes.

If I can't make very good use of this short window, the risks of building a fast t70 become just way too high for the payoff. As it is, unless I have a commanding lead I can expect the p4 to be on the field hunting the t70 a couple minutes before the t34 comes to back me up.

I have seen replays where aggressive play seems to lock ostheer into t2, where the first t70 comes out at the 10 minute mark and is followed by a second one, and together they clean up. I've also seen replays where that didn't pay off at all, because the ostheer player still got an oswind or a p4 out, leaving the soviets with almost nothing to counter it.

For that reason I'm hesitant. As much as I hate getting mowed down by scout cars, I don't know that its the end of the world, and chasing vehicles are taking a risk that they won't get fausted or grenaded, or intercepted. I think it just depends on how drastic the change is. I wouldn't want something like this to neuter the later t70 just because it can fly out the gate so early now.

Tiger ace change is probably important but doesn't fix the things I'm hesitant about concerning the call-in. The tank is almost always destined to just make a v-line for the opponent's base. It pretty much has to if the game is even. Otherwise your opponent will reinforce, repair and add to his force while you hang out on the map. In that way, the tank is almost entirely on rails. If it does get into your base, unless you can disable it, it is going to be game over really fast. I propose a fast VP tick-down against the ostheer that also kicks in as soon as he calls in the tank so that soviet players that were on their way to a vp victory might actually get there if the ostheer doesn't first push off the opponent and hold vps.

Alternately, I propose that the Tiger Ace should be nerfed by maybe a third, and Ostheer income should only be choked down to something like 10 or 20 percent, allowing for the re-enforcement of still living squads, and the very occasional purchase of a new unit.

The easiest solution would have been to make soviet industry 2cp and the instavet cp1.

The Tiger Ace needs a complete redesign imo.

The tiger ace from 7cp to 8cp just turns the game from 'cripple the Osteer before 7cp' to 'cripple the osteer before 8cp'. The concept of a free super tank just does not work in a competitive. Unfortunately, Relic seems to think that it does, judging from their explanation of the change and by the the leaked info on the new soviet commander that can call in elite T34/85s for free... Sigh.

I like how all tanks now do worse damage against infantry, making infantry more viable in the later stages of the game. Though this change sort of kills the normal early T-70 strat for the 20 commanders that are not soviet industry.

what is up with all these elite bullshit nowadays.

dunno about the change, this means tanks are delegated into mostly anti vehicle roles, rather than fire support. since infantry can rush up to tanks, force it to pull away and watch them miss the next 2-5 shots or so.

but on the other hand, they become mobile firebases, to be screened by infantry so that enemy infantry wont get too close and force them to move and lose their effectiveness. might be a good change after all, makes tanks more combined arms-ish.

Relic really has to stop implementing changes to the live version after every brainfart. This, again, sounds like a very hasty fix to issues that should have never occurred in the first place.

Increasing build time of buildings will not delay the first T70, and it will certainly not reduce the spam of this unit. Changing the effectiveness of tanks vs infantry just because of Soviet Industry is a horrible idea and affects to game in many more ways than just the thing they're trying to fix.

Relic, if you're reading along: please get some help balancing your game from some of the top players. There's a couple people playing your game that can help you with balance, time to start listening to them cause my god: you're doing an awful job yourself!

There are quite a few "pros" in the beta and others have decided not to join.

The tiger ace from 7cp to 8cp just turns the game from 'cripple the Osteer before 7cp' to 'cripple the osteer before 8cp'. The concept of a free super tank just does not work in a competitive. Unfortunately, Relic seems to think that it does, judging from their explanation of the change and by the the leaked info on the new soviet commander that can call in elite T34/85s for free... Sigh.

What. Where did that leak at?

Jesus, that's just scary.

Building things slower doesn't actually increase the timing of a T-70 hitting the field. It only reduces the amount of time that the combat engineers have to spend in base building, which still isn't very long. I'd much rather see some form of a change that would delay the initial T-70. Currently they can be chasing off your gren squads before Schrecks or PaKs are even out.

With regular build speed T1 takes 20s T2 takes 25s and T3 and T4 takes 72.5s. So if they go T1 and T3 to rush the T-70 out that adds over 1 minute and 30 seconds to the time it takes to get out the T-70.

The scatter change also makes the T-70 less potent.

What. Where did that leak at?

Jesus, that's just scary.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/10540/stills-from-the-livestream-showing-new-upcoming-commanders

It's the bottom right one.

From the wording of it you can bet your ass that they will be as broken as the tiger ace.

Proposition to balance the game with cmdrs.(The patchs were good, but not cmrdrs)

First i would redo the basic cmdrs, so everyone has the core game features available. (a.k.a the basic stuff all armies have: trench, bunkers, at-infantry, arty, troop transport e.t.c). Those one would be added to the basic cmrdrs along their nature (offensive, defensive or support)

Second, cmrdrs with overlapping abilities would be change so they are more unique.

The game should be balanced with the basic cmrdrs first.

Then, i would rebalance each dlc's cmdrs with a thematic in mind adding more variety not brute power.

Heroes unit (With limited lives) should be added with all cmrds. (Eng heroes, airborne,e.t.c) but with less impact then the tiger ace.

*Add more importance to cover**

**Please lessen the tanks spamming, it kill the game, it's boring as hell.**

This game can still be save.

Thank you.

Personally, I think Tiger Ace needs a big popcap instead of increasing their cps.

Being able to call a Tiger Ace when both teams are equal in units is a terrible decision.

And yes, STOP the tank spamming. That doesn't feel CoH anymore when infantry is redundant in lategame stages.

All of these changes are great! The change to scatter is major. Squad wipes from T70 and Ostwind will occur much less frequently now.

On the other hand, the Tiger Ace can be just as much a trial by fire of for this type of unit and the response. If they tried to release those Soviet version of the Tiger Ace the same way they handled it this patch, then any last credibility they had, even from these little balance patches would be gone entirely.

I am not sure about scatter reduction.
I think reduced scatter on the move against infantry will hurt Soviets since their tanks are mostly anti AI.
I mean yes, it will make T70 less scary but it also allow Panzer Grenadiers to chase tanks without any worries.
They should resolve the issue in another way.

So 222 gets even shittier?

After reading more posts about this I am not a fan of the suggested scatter change.

So 222 gets even shittier?

It is also my concern that 221/222 would become useless. You can`t ever stay stationary with this unit since unless you kite all the time and maintain almost max range you`ll get AT naded which means death in like 95% of the cases.

If the scatter change is implemented I propose the 221/222 should get an exception from this and not be affected.

The problem with the soviet industry is in the FUEL. They get a lot of fuel fast and there is the core problem. When you have the fuel building faster or slower wont matter.

What they could do is maybe move it to 2-3 CP, this way the germans would have some time to prepare. Also it will still boost the soviets with more fuel and they can pump out more tanks late game.

The problem with the soviet industry is in the FUEL. They get a lot of fuel fast and there is the core problem. When you have the fuel building faster or slower wont matter.

What they could do is maybe move it to 2-3 CP, this way the germans would have some time to prepare. Also it will still boost the soviets with more fuel and they can pump out more tanks late game.

Even if it came in at 1CP it would a lot better than it is now.

All of the 0CP commanders are f*cked up in some way. Why'd they even start that trend is beyond me.

If the tank wants to kill infantry, it can do so with the same effectiveness just by hitting the stop button. It takes a little more micro, but that's okay. And there's still infantry support. They can also adjust individual scatter and moving scatter later if needed.

The scatter change will not affect the 222 in any way. It's primary damage and infantry killing ability is from the MG, which doesn't scatter. The 20mm cannon is meant for light vehicles and only adds a little bit of damage to infantry. If the 20mm cannon misses a vehicle, it's AoE damage won't do much if any damage.

Alrighty then. Thanks for the info!

Sounds good. Im for anything that reduces either/both vehicle kiting/chasing of infantry.

T70 is a particular cuplrit of this.

While in the topic of 221/2, this unit needs some buffing. More on that later.

This is a bit unfair for circle strafing Ostwinds on ZiS though...

Edited to add: I suppose the AoE of the shots helps retain that.