The maxim thread

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2020, 22:31 PMBetterDead ThanRed

but it can be used more for offensive action compared to defensive action due to its quick setup/teardown, and the same enables it to react more quickly to flanks, an mg42 would normally not be able to be ready to fire in time if it gets flanked due to its longer setup/teardown.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2020, 23:31 PMgbem

It has the same setup time as any other mg and has quicker teardown time by 1s.... in exchange you get terrible firing arcs and terrible suppression...

This is not worth it by a longshot... hell i wouldnt even pay 240mp for the maxim in its current state... it is outright even when contrasted to the HMG34 at 250mp and a measely 10mp discount wont make me buy it...


In any case id hate to see a cheaper maxim since it equates to more spam... just give it reliable suppression outside of sustained fire and it should be good....

Also sustained fire is a joke of a vet 1 ability compared to api...

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 00:22 AMthedarkarmadillo

i think it needs to be an active ability, else itll be attack moved but i think it shouldnt be a vet ability because that means if one is wiped its worth more as scrap because it cannot do anything against yellow cover.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 00:26 AMgbem

Any other mg can be attack moved though... and the maxim has the same setup time as any other mg...

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 00:38 AMthedarkarmadillo

i dont have the numbers in front of me. could you give me a list of the other MGs that have a 6 man crew? im thinking that may be a variable....

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 00:47 AMgbem

Its also one of 2 stock mgs which suffers from the deathloop...and suffers from worse animations aswell which negates its 6 man perk...

Also that other mg has extremely high dps and suppression

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 01:26 AMSpoof

Fix the deathloop and maybe increase suppression or DPS a little. Could also bring it down to 240 or 250 MP. Keep the firing arc the same though, because otherwise it would be a nightmare to flank nested Maxims.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 04:19 AMgbem

Thats the problem... deathloop actually cannot be fixed... its a design issue afaik

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 04:51 AMSpoof

I'm pretty sure miragefla's mod that puts two men in front of the MG fixes the deathloop.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2020, 20:08 PMWiderstreit

The reason why its 260 is, because it too potential as blobb.

Without a build-limit it can't be cheaper. Over all, I am still for give build-limits for early HMGs. There is no reason to build 2-3 HMGs in early, that would also fix the problems of OKW versus that stupid opener. Also less MH42 would be a nice change in larger multiplayer games.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2020, 17:30 PMgbem

its a mathematical equivalent to the area covered by a certain shape... draw a torus around a unit with a maximum radius of 30 and a minimum of 20 and you will find it have more area than a circle with the radius 10... it also means there is significantly more area u can put your unit at where it can be effective against an opposing unit...

the unit that needs to close distance has the advantage the more "surface area" since you have more choices of approach. Its when you have a lane with a SMALL surfafe area that forces troops to come down an area with poor cover that gives a surface area advantage to long ranged combatants. However, I don't think surface area is really relevant here anyway as we are not talking about map design.


i both agree and disagree with this... yes generalist units are the preferred choice to specialist units as it is easy to defeat the opposing unit by moving out of its preferred combat distance... but a difference of 17% dps at all ranges really does pale in comparison to a +37.48% to +46.091% damage boost at range 20-30....


its kinda why shocks are considered good units despite being specialist units... they are really really good at what they do (thanks to dps and body armor) to the point that they are worth using...

tldr: being a specialist doesnt automatically make the upgrade worse... sometimes the specialized upgrade is simply soo large that it simply overtakes the standard one...
The advantage that generalist units have is that they will almost always be better than specialist units at some range which means a good player can find ways to put his troops there and cancel the specialist advantage. You mentioned yourself that your playstyle is long ranged. Inherently you are just going to have issues trying to use units that need flexibility when picking their engagement ranges.



its a bolster that provides +17% increase in stats instead of +25%... it also needs 50 muni per unit and needs an upgrade of 18mp to reach full squad size and is not automatically done...
It also costs zero fuel if you wait until tier 4. It also provides a veterency gain bonus. It also reduces reinforcement cost. It also gives 7 men to a squad that can merge allowing you to fully crew weapon teams. And yes this is actually done.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 06:57 AMSerrith

the unit that needs to close distance has the advantage the more "surface area" since you have more choices of approach. Its when you have a lane with a SMALL surfafe area that forces troops to come down an area with poor cover that gives a surface area advantage to long ranged combatants. However, I don't think surface area is really relevant here anyway as we are not talking about map design.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 06:57 AMSerrith

The advantage that generalist units have is that they will almost always be better than specialist units at some range which means a good player can find ways to put his troops there and cancel the specialist advantage. You mentioned yourself that your playstyle is long ranged. Inherently you are just going to have issues trying to use units that need flexibility when picking their engagement ranges.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 06:57 AMSerrith

It also costs zero fuel if you wait until tier 4.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 06:57 AMSerrith

It also provides a veterency gain bonus. It also reduces reinforcement cost. It also gives 7 men to a squad that can merge allowing you to fully crew weapon teams.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 08:19 AMgbem

thats really not how the math works lol...
I understand what surface area IS, I don't see how its relevant as small arms fire lacks collision properties against infantry models if that's what you are referring to. But what you seem to be talking about is that there is a larger number of optimal places you can put a unit with an emphasis on long range. That's simply map dependant.


yes but being a generalist upgrade doesnt automatically make it superior to a specialist upgrade... the DPS boost given by the LMG42 upgrade for example is soo large especially when compared to the DPS of 7 man cons... no doubt about it
You can get more out of a generalist unit. An unupgraded rifle squad will still be able to beat LMG upgraded grens if you properly utilize positioning to get close and can also beat pgrens if they are stuck at long range. Conversely, LMG grens will never beat LMG rifles at any range, nor double Bren sections.


yeah soo bolster is not only better but it also comes earlier... youve made a good argument for early 7 man... also lets not forget that bolster is a one time thing.. every other IS squad comes 5 man already...
Point is that 7 man upgrade does not have a MANDATORY 35 fuel side tech.

thats why its a 25% boost instead of a 17% boost yes? greater vs greater raw DPS...
Except that with the cover bonus, you have roughly the same dps increase (22-25%) but you also get the extra vet and the reduced reinforcement cost. So maybe instead of removing the cover bonus, remove the reinforcement cost reduction?

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 04:51 AMSpoof

I'm pretty sure miragefla's mod that puts two men in front of the MG fixes the deathloop.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 11:09 AMKirrik

I wonder what kind of genius at lelic though of giving maxim smallest firing arc in the first place considering it always had worst supression. Maybe it's relic from time when it could packup and setup quickly but thats irrelevant for long while.

Jump back to quoted post28 Oct 2020, 11:09 AMKirrik

I wonder what kind of genius at lelic though of giving maxim smallest firing arc in the first place considering it always had worst supression. Maybe it's relic from time when it could packup and setup quickly but thats irrelevant for long while.