Panther time to fire is slow need a vet buff

*takes a deep breath*
M4A3 "Sherman" Medium Tank is not tank destroyer
Cromwell" Mk.IV Cruiser Tank is not tank destroyer
"Churchill" Mk.VII Infantry Tank is not tank destroyer
T-34 Medium Tank is not tank destroyer
T-34-85 Medium Tank is not tank destroyer

they still deals 160 HP damage per shot. they destory axis tanks.

Fact double checked katitof

@mrgame2

Now check the penetration and speed of those meds. The hp and armour of those mediums.

You will see that:
The panther outranges them, it out pens them and outlasts them (except churchil), can outrun them. While having a simaler rof to mediums at vet 0.

So next to allthe things a panther has over all allied mediums it need to get the same rof buffs while giving nothing in return?

Yet another no brainer buff request for the panther without looking at the other great stats it already has. You cant have it all on one unit.

The armor bonus Panther get is hardly meaningful defensive bonus since it hardly lower the chance to be penetrate by allied TDs.

Actually units like SU-85 have better chance to penetrate a Panther at vet 2 than at vet 0 since they get x3 times the penetration bonus than the armor bonus Panther gets.

The armor bonus Panther get is hardly meaningful defensive bonus since it hardly lower the chance to be penetrate by allied TDs.

Actually units like SU-85 have better chance to penetrate a Panther at vet 2 than at vet 0 since they get x3 times the penetration bonus than the armor bonus Panther gets.

Well....yes. Tank destroyers are meant to penetrate panther with a high chance (not 100%) so I don't quite get how this has anything to do with this thread. The armour bonus is not vs TDs but vs premium mediums like Comet, E8, T34-85, and the likes. That's why Panther has Pershing level HP. It is barely outranged by TDs and can be penetrated but you have the HP pool to react and armour to partially ignore Shermans and the likes. Hence it's well balanced. It has the speed but not the moving accuracy to shoot at 50 range reliably. It has the ROF and penetration to deal with any Ally heavy tank while also having the survivability to outlast them in a fight. Combine all those things in one average 2v2 or 3v3 match and Panther comes out a winner. The only thing you won't use your panther as is a infantry shredder. You got Brummbar, stuka, obers, and the likes, for that.

The armor bonus Panther get is hardly meaningful defensive bonus since it hardly lower the chance to be penetrate by allied TDs.

Actually units like SU-85 have better chance to penetrate a Panther at vet 2 than at vet 0 since they get x3 times the penetration bonus than the armor bonus Panther gets.

Almost as if its meant to go against generalists with armor and massive health pool that was moved to vet0 is supposed to be defense vs TDs, eh?

The only science you were ever part of was that of a lab rat for curing denseness. Close this meaningless troll thread. Saying that Panther is a weak tank and needs buffs is LOL at best, and complete and utter disregard for common sense.

@mrgame2

Now check the penetration and speed of those meds. The hp and armour of those mediums.

You will see that:
The panther outranges them, it out pens them and outlasts them (except churchil), can outrun them. While having a simaler rof to mediums at vet 0.

So next to allthe things a panther has over all allied mediums it need to get the same rof buffs while giving nothing in return?

Yet another no brainer buff request for the panther without looking at the other great stats it already has. You cant have it all on one unit.

Panther has the pen against allies med, likewise allies 60Td has the pen over axis stock tanks, inclusive panther.

Except, panther has poor rof and accruacy whereas allies 60Td are much more accurate and deadly.

when panther is out, allies med are at or close to vet2, with their insane gun bonus.

See where my stats based approach is leading you to?

The only buff i call is the moving accuracy at vet3, generally agree that Panther needs some accruacy bonus.

The rest is moving all or half of panther vet3 gun bonus down to vet2, and the armor down to vet1.

hardly trolling. reporting you guys for toxic behavor and not sticking to improving the issues.

Except, panther has poor rof and accruacy whereas allies 60Td are much more accurate and deadly.

Incorrect.

when panther is out, allies med are at or close to vet2, with their insane gun bonus.

Irrelevant against panther, makes difference only vs infantry.

See where my stats based approach is leading you to?

To a circus, with a clown in the middle, chasing his own tail, being horribly deluded and screaming bullshit as absolute truth.

The only buff i call is the moving accuracy at vet3, generally agree that Panther needs some accruacy bonus.

Who agrees?
Other 4 digit rank players?

The rest is moving all or half of panther vet3 gun bonus down to vet2, and the armor down to vet1.

No gameplay based justification for that.



https://coh2.serealia.ca/#51

Stop honking your big red nose for a moment there and go and compare actual reload, aim, wind up and wind down times to any other TD.

Well....yes...

Glad to see that you agree, this is simple response to claim made in this thread that the Panther gets meaningful defensive bonus.

Almost as if its meant to go against generalists with armor and massive health pool that was moved to vet0 is supposed to be defense vs TDs, eh?

This post does not really make any sense at all and it has nothing to do with what I have posted so pls do not quote me if you are going to post irrelevant things.

In your opinion does the Panther get meaningful defensive bonus or not?

Incorrect.
...

That is incorrect mrgame2 is actually correct.

Allied TDs are more accurate than the Panther. They also gain more accuracy with veterancy.

Su-85 and M36 have better ROF than Panther. They also gain reload bonuses.

Guys stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks

On topic though:
Panther vet0 ROF is in between Firefly and Jackson and gets bumped up to almost Jackson level at vet3.
OKW though needs the Panther against Brots only or against call in heavies. ROF wise, the JP4 and Stug are the best TDs in the game.

And yes, the Panthers armor bonus does not help too much against Allied TDs, but against all ATGs and it reinforces the role as a heavy brawler against mediums and heavy tanks.

they still deals 160 HP damage per shot. they destory axis tanks.

Fact double checked katitof

This is nonesense. Your comparison implies that these units are comparable to begin with, but they fulfill completely different roles and have completely different base stats, especially within their faction.

ROF wise, the JP4 and Stug are the best TDs in the game.

ROF for TD hardly means anything without penetration. Firefly has a garbage ROF but its still very usefull and powerfull TD simply because of its raw penetration, its less effective against medium armor while being effective against heavy targers.

Stug and JP4 have good ROF but very poor penetration, meaning that they are effective against medium targers, but they are slightly better then premium mediums against heavy targets. Stug is cheap counter to mediums, while JP4 is somewhat counter for allied TDs and mediums, but it hardly can be massed, so its more of a single support unit.

Point is being, when it comes to TDs axis do have problems vs heavy armor, since aside from AT walls, the only thing that can reliably fight heavy armor is panther.

Honestly I never understood this design, why would Axis get TDs which main goal is to couter mediums, while Axis objectively already has so many tools to counter mediums, while against heavyes they have no other reliable option but panther.

Not to mention that Allies can potentually get more heavy tanks and faster in general then Axis.