USF armour

Might have posted this earlier, dont remember.

I feel there is too little sherman types available stock, there are 5 variations available? but 80% is doctrinal. This sexy tank needs more representation ingame.

There are:
-M4 standard
-M4 bulldozer 105
-M4 standard bulldozer + WP
-M4A3(76)
-M4A3E8 (easy eight)

Is there a way to implement more as stock, what if there was an option like for UKF to get either bofors or AEC.

An idea might be to have 1 extra type of sherman that needs ''unlocking'' to access stock, though i feel getting M4A3E8 and M4 105 bulldozer stock might be a tad overkill.

So a choice between M4 standard bulldozer + WP OR M4A3(76), you pick one to unlock, and lock out the other like the UKF does with their bofors OR AEC.

both of these tanks, if became stock, would have to be buffed/nerfed accordingly

#shermansmattertoo

Minesweeper upgrade with 120 ammo could be a thing.

I don't think they need to be stock, the issue is that they fill roles that stock units fill better. You will never see heavy usage of either AT sherman when you have a faster, harder hitting, longer ranged Jackson that can take just as many hits to knock out. There's no need. Even with a non doc 76mm you won't see it ESPECIALLY if it locks out WP for the regual sherman. What's more having a non doc 76, even if it never gets picked absolutely removes the m10 even further from the game than it already is.

I like the idea of specialized Sherman's seeing some play but the faction isnt set up for such a thing primarily because of the Jackson.

Dozer could probably find a home though for some more durable mediums play but frankly it FEELS like a doctrinal upgrade.

I agree with thedarkarmadillo's opinion that as long as jackson TD is a doc unit there is no need for any
speacialized shermans. But, let's say (just my opinion) if jackson was replaced by M10 TD, then I certainly
think speacialized sherman(premium stock medium) will add and diversify the USF late game.
So, imagine this:
Jackson is replaced by M10(stock as mentioned)
Sherman76mm is replaced by Jackson(in Mechanized commander)
M10 is replaced by Jackson(in Amour company commander)
Sherman76mm becomes a stock premium medium(maybe after a side tech)

PS: This only my opinion. I am not an expert player. I have no idea if it play fine if at all implemented.
Please, do not bully me for this.

Might have posted this earlier, dont remember.

I feel there is too little sherman types available stock, there are 5 variations available? but 80% is doctrinal. This sexy tank needs more representation ingame.

There are:
-M4 standard
-M4 bulldozer 105
-M4 standard bulldozer + WP
-M4A3(76)
-M4A3E8 (easy eight)

Is there a way to implement more as stock, what if there was an option like for UKF to get either bofors or AEC.

An idea might be to have 1 extra type of sherman that needs ''unlocking'' to access stock, though i feel getting M4A3E8 and M4 105 bulldozer stock might be a tad overkill.

So a choice between M4 standard bulldozer + WP OR M4A3(76), you pick one to unlock, and lock out the other like the UKF does with their bofors OR AEC.

both of these tanks, if became stock, would have to be buffed/nerfed accordingly

#shermansmattertoo

you cant imagine how many variants there was from sherman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman_variants

I agree with thedarkarmadillo's opinion that as long as jackson TD is a doc unit there is no need for any
speacialized shermans. But, let's say (just my opinion) if jackson was replaced by M10 TD, then I certainly
think speacialized sherman(premium stock medium) will add and diversify the USF late game.
So, imagine this:
Jackson is replaced by M10(stock as mentioned)
Sherman76mm is replaced by Jackson(in Mechanized commander)
M10 is replaced by Jackson(in Amour company commander)
Sherman76mm becomes a stock premium medium(maybe after a side tech)

PS: This only my opinion. I am not an expert player. I have no idea if it play fine if at all implemented.
Please, do not bully me for this.

You would need a complete rebalance of all Axis armor Panther and up, which would in turn require a rebalance of all Allied heavy armor as and tank destroyers like the SU-85. If not, well I could not imagine USF having to deal with even a Panther or Tiger I with only an M10 and a Sherman, it would be a disaster for USF.

Introduce sherman 76 into stock will allow rework Jackson into heavy counter specialist thus less effective vs lìu and med, mostly mean slower rof with more alpha dmg and slower turret rotation.

What about something like this:
Swap m10 and jackson
Jackson reverts to its old glass cannon design
M10 gets bumped to 60 range but turret rotation gets slowed to firefly levels.
HVAP rebalanced to scale with vet with reduced cost and cooldown.
Pen increased slightly.
Adjust price as needed but still keep it on the cheaper side of things.

This ends up that the m10 is a squishier but more mobile and affordable firefly that has a faster fire rate. Good dps and mobility but still requires a modicum of planning to make use of like other TDs.the Jackson returns to a high micro but extremely powerful TD and sherman variants take the role of in your face and up your ass AT.

Everyone has a place and all is good in the world

From another thread:

USF a number of different version available :

Show Spoiler

number of times used in the World Championship tournament.

Cost:
Show Spoiler

Suggestions M4A3(76) Sherman:
Cost from 380/125 to 350/120 same as Ostheer Panzer IV
Pintle gun "Sherman top gunner" replaced by the standard USF gunner.
Vet bonus the same with M4A3 Sherman
Single type of munitions
ROF the same as with M4A3 Sherman
Penetration values 120/125/135

Now stock. With these values it should be able to have almost the same chance to penetrate the PzIV as the PzIV has to penetrate the Sherman and while being more accurate on the move.
(Imo the OStheer PzIV should be more cost efficient than Sherman since Ostheer are inferior up to this point, lets say that PzIV vs Sherman 76 should be around 55/45).

M4A3 now doctrinal as is.
Sherman Easy8 as is.
105mm Dozer as is or remove the blade (if possible) and make the upgrade available to M4A3. (Could also be redesigned to be an infatry support tank and moved to Rifle company )
M36 redesigned vs Super heavies only. (Could have accuracy/ROF lowered damage increase if there a need).

Basically the change removes HE rounds from stock while making the Sherman a decent counter to Ostheer PzIV.

So the player can now go Easy 8s vs OKW PzIV or for M4A3/105mm dozers if he want extra AI.

One could even take it a bit further and have:
M4A3 Sherman reduce armor penetration of AP round a abit and have cost reduced to around 90-100 closer to T-34/7/Ostwind doctrinal.

One versions of Dozer either 105mm or M4A3

M4A3(76) Sherman about Ostheer PzIV pwer level

Sherman Easy8 avout OKW Power level

105mm Sherman with design that could be Brumbar style (current one), mini Churhcill (infatry support Tank) or min KV-2.

(edited some things)

I feel insulted(actually I'm not). I feel
this is slowly turning into troll thread
and I do not want waste anymore time. But, as requested here is my player card.
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198095765790

PS: I don't want to be troll in this thread. I will stop after this.

Ok buddy, I trolled you enough :9. I have sent you a steam invite. I could teach a few things ingame if you want.

You would need a complete rebalance of all Axis armor Panther and up, which would in turn require a rebalance of all Allied heavy armor as and tank destroyers like the SU-85. If not, well I could not imagine USF having to deal with even a Panther or Tiger I with only an M10 and a Sherman, it would be a disaster for USF.

Not saying we should rework anything, but if we had to, we should make all TDs (including Panther) high range, high pen, high accuracy, but slow reload, while mediums should be lower pen, less range, less accuracy, but fast reload, so a pair of mediums can force back a TD that doesn't retreat.

Not saying we should rework anything, but if we had to, we should make all TDs (including Panther) high range, high pen, high accuracy, but slow reload, while mediums should be lower pen, less range, less accuracy, but fast reload, so a pair of mediums can force back a TD that doesn't retreat.

Apsrt from reload times this is already how it generally works.

But you also should not forget that TDs often function a bit differently in factions. For USF the TD is their onlyreal AT unit, UKF only needs the Firefly against the heaviest targets because they already have the Comet, and SOV are somewhat in between but usually also need an SU85 (in team games at least).
Axis factions however have a dual setup with a 'light' TD version and the heavier Panther. Giving both the same treatment does destroy unit variety.

And slight excursion: I think Ostheer has the best designed and most interesting AT setup in the game. An exceptional ATG for all game stages, the 222 for the very early game, a StuG to counter mediums, Panther for heavies and Schrecks for everything in between.
This offers so many tactics. Beefy combo with Panther, high firing volume with StuGs and a PaK for the punch. Potentially flanking Schrecks. And many of those units have a form of stun shot that rewards good micro but punishes misclicks. All other factions play very linearly in their AT department, but Ostheer is quite refreshingly different.

And to come back to topic: this tank switching has been discussed before. Although it's interesting, this won't happen anymore. But with the current state of their ATG, USF definetely needs the Jackson or any kind of high pen TD, otherwise they will be utterly screwed. The other Shermans however should get more distinct roles, although this is mostly only doable if we get a guaranteed two patches...

Apsrt from reload times this is already how it generally works.

But you also should not forget that TDs often function a bit differently in factions. For USF the TD is their onlyreal AT unit, UKF only needs the Firefly against the heaviest targets because they already have the Comet, and SOV are somewhat in between but usually also need an SU85 (in team games at least).
Axis factions however have a dual setup with a 'light' TD version and the heavier Panther. Giving both the same treatment does destroy unit variety.

You're right, but IMO all factions only need 3 AT options - tank destroyer, AT gun, infantry AT. Infantry AT should counter tank destroyer, AT gun should priority counter medium and than heavy, tank destroyer should counter priority counter heavy/medium.

You're right in that unit variety would change, but I don't think it would have to be sacrificed. For example, you could have Axis AT guns fire slower but have higher penetration, making them stronger against heavies and weaker against mediums (the Rak 43/Panzershreck actually had really high penetration). Allied AT guns could have less penetration but higher fire rate. In order to compensate for heavily-armored Axis tanks, they could toggle between standard AP and APDS/HVAP; APDS and HVAP slow down the fire rate of the AT gun, and could cost a small amount of munitions per shot if necessary. Similarly, for tank destroyers you'd be able to differentiate between light TDs and heavy TDs. StuG III, Achilles, and Wolverine fall under this category. If I had developed the game, I would have nerfed the SU85 penetration and made it a light TD, while using the SU100 as a non-doctrinal heavy TD with good frontal armor, extremely high peneration (~211 mm at 500 m with APBC), and fast speed, but slow reload rate like the Firefly. Since SU-76 doesn't do a good job of filling the gap between AT power, either SU85 would be made a stock light TD or T34/85 would be a stock upgrade option on the T34, giving a solid counter to medium tanks (after all, Soviets only have 14 units compared to 15 of the other factions). USF wouldn't really need a major change; IRL the Jackson had better fire rate than the Firefly and SU-100 (but worse penetration, not that it really matters on anything smaller than a King Tiger), and was actually pretty slow (26 mph). If need be, the M18 or M10 could have been made a stock light TD.

Anyway, these are all just ideas that I've been mulling over for some time. Such radical changes aren't needed in the current state of the game, although maybe they could prove useful in a mod or a future CoH, if one ever comes.