So...my Tiger kept bouncing against a KV-1

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 02:54 AMGachiGasm

I believe KV can bounce only at long range, and with a bit of luck at med range. But on the other note, Tiger penetration is worst that one of a Panther not my much but still. If you need heavy AT tank, Tiger isn't really best deal.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 02:54 AMGachiGasm

If you need heavy AT tank, Tiger isn't really best deal.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 07:53 AMC3 TOOTH

@Hannibal can u tell me whats the difference between Okw Pz4 and Ost Pz4?

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 07:49 AMSander93

...
Anyhow the KV-1 is meant to be tanky, it's pretty much its sole purpose.
...

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 06:49 AMHannibal

/moved to the gameplay section since as OP states, this is more of a rant than focussed balance discussion atm.



To topic:
OST has not really a unit to very reliably deal with heavy armor except of course the Elefant. That's why Comets and Churchills are/were super popular as well. KV1 has 270 armor, Panther has 220 far and 240 mid penetration, PaK40 190/200. So Panther is the only unit that can somewhat reliably deal with the KV1's frontal armor, while the PaK is also a good choice because of its range. The KV1 is slow as fuck and you will get a lot of shots off while the KV1 enters and leaves the cone at snail speed. Especially when you can stun him. Another plus for the PaK is the KV1-SU85 combo. While your Panther will get shot and penned by the SU85 when attacking the KV1, the PaK stays basically untouchable.

My favourite though is the OKW P4 vs KV1 matchup. None of these tanks have a real chance to kill each other and the fight goes on forever.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 08:48 AMVonManteuffel

KW1 is bit of a joke. It should have a lot of HP to fullfill its tanky role, but its armor is way too high. This should be decreased.

You also have to mention its Vet1 ability to dig in, which doesn't even needs any infantry unit to do so (in contrast to OST Hull Down ability).

=> So, lower its armor, increase its HP to 880. Then it can sustain 1 more shot and KW1 should be fine.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 08:26 AMVipper

KV-1 AI is great and it has enough AT to take out a PzIV if the PzIV decides to slug it out, so I do not quite agree that is sole purpose is to be "tanky".

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 10:26 AMKatitof

It does not have enough AT to take out P4.... its exact opposite.
It has enough durability to outlast it.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 10:26 AMKatitof

It has exactly same gun as T34/76, which is inadequate against both P4 variants from the front.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 08:34 AMullumulu

Kw1 isnt this slow "as fuck".

Target size: 24 Sight: 35 Speed: 5.1 Accel: 1.6 Rotate: 30 Armor: 270/165 Health: 800

it is surprisingly good at mobility.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 08:48 AMVonManteuffel

KW1 is bit of a joke. It should have a lot of HP to fullfill its tanky role, but its armor is way too high. This should be decreased.

You also have to mention its Vet1 ability to dig in, which doesn't even needs any infantry unit to do so (in contrast to OST Hull Down ability).

=> So, lower its armor, increase its HP to 880. Then it can sustain 1 more shot and KW1 should be fine.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 10:46 AMVipper

A KV-1 will beat a PzIV and that is fact. Call it what you like but it has enough AT capability to beat a PzIV.
Since ?KV-1 will win with gun it has it adequate not inadequate.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 10:52 AMKatitof

Yes, it will, that goes without a question.
But its firepower is not the reason why.
I find it hilarious you can't see it, so let me draw you a clearer picture:
It got the same firepower as T34/76.
If T34 does not have enough firepower to beat P4, neither does another unit with EXACT SAME GUN, so the reason for different outcome is CLEARLY NOT FIREPOWER, like... there is maybe some difference between KV-1 and 34/76 that is not firepower?

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 10:52 AMKatitof

Check your excel sheets, maybe you'll find hints on actual reason why one of these tanks almost always loses and other almost always wins despite having the exact same firepower on both.

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2020, 10:46 AMHannibal

"Slow as fuck" is a slight hyperbole. I was mostly reffering to the acceleration that ensures you to catch a couple of shots if you picked the wrong engagement. Similar to German heavy tanks (actually it is pretty comparable to the Tiger in terms of mobility). But that's not the focus of the tank anyway, the focus is being tanky.


I agree that at least the rear and possibly also the frontal armor (or alternatively the rotation speed) should be slightly lowered. Increasing the health as you suggested will do nothing. The KV-1 already gets a damage modifier of 0,8 I believe, so it can take 6 hits plus faust. The additional 80 health would just remove the ability to kill it with a faust.

Another option could be to shift damage modifiers to the veterancy ability. So -10% standard (or maybe -8% so it stays faustable, otherwise it might survive with literally 8 health) and move the rest to the veterancy ability for the total -36% it would get now at vet1 in the hull down.