State of OKW in the meta

My point is, many guys above are screaming for a spamable repair unit, i thought this ideal worth discussion.

Imagine you had to use shocks to repair Ur tanks and didn't have any other unit to do that.

Imagine thinking your repair squad is a shock troop and pretending you don't have repair automatons waiting at base.

You can get less spios then other engies, but 2 spios will outperform 3 other faction engies for similar cost at everything they do.

2 Spios = 600 MP and 16 Pop Cap, 30 MP / model to reinforce

3 Russian Pios = 510 MP and 15 Pop Cap, 21 MP / model to reinforce

3 US Pios = 600 MP and 15 Pop Cap, 25 MP / model to reinforce

3 UKF Pios = 630 MP and 15 Pop Cap, 26 MP / model to reinforce, can be upgraded to repair just as fast as OKW Pioneers ( so you only need to spend 420 MP ) , also they do stay on the field after LVs arrive ... unlike Sturmpios ( at least you claimed that )


Also: Will they really outperform them at everything ? As far as I am aware more=better when it comes to minesweepers. ( And they don't come with non doc flamethrowers, the ability to build bunkers, the ability to build cachees )

And do USF and SU really need to be on par when it comes to repair speed? USF has crew repair and SU has quite a few docs that allow Cons to repair tanks

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Only the kt is slow as far as i remember maybe the st too. The panther and p4 however are fast esp with blitz.

But p4 isn't much better than allied mediums. It is just different. It is more expensive and has a bit more armour an slightly better gun. It does not have the crew, does not have stock smoke, etc. Blitz is a muni paid ability. The differences are too small, especially if you look at the price and the fact it will deal with larger infantry squads which can almost all be upgraded with bazookas, piats etc. Looking at the complete picture p4 might be even considered inferior to allied mediums. Same for panther which is often a worse choice than a comet, for exaple. Basically those vehicles are too similar to say that axis have better tanks.

The tiger imo is pretty fast as well. Speed isent the issue. Its that the kt with 300ish armour is stock is. Because its stock meaning always avalable the allied td's need to be able to fight it reliably.
Since they are t3 units they overpreform vs t3 and t4 axis armour because of that.

P4 and p5 have equal or better rof then a t34. They will kill models just fine. The okw p4 has an immidiate edge over all 3 stock allied mediums. Its 230ish armour and allied 160 max armour make sure of that.

Again, like above. Those vehicles are largely similar to the allied rooster combining 3 factions and lots of doctrinal tanks. KT has too little firepower to make sense in most games. It will just tank damage and have to be retreated for repairs. Most often it will cost the player too much to make it a sensible choice.

The only difference is that they generally have inferior range and get those extra shots when charging and then will spend a lot of time repairing and it forces axis to invest a lot of manpower into repair units which allies get much more cheaply.

Again okw usualy has to repair a single vehicles cuz the tend to bounce shots more then allied vehicles can ever hope too.

No. It is often the other way around. T70 works for both armoured targets and infantry. As OKW you need 2 vehicles to do the same. And it is really difficult to keep them operational when all allied (2 factions) infantry can grab a list or Bazooka. Soviets have a lot of ptrs units. So those vehicles get damaged even more than allied vehicles of similar type and you cannot say that they will need less repair.

Allies tend to need to repair multyple tanks more often.

Not true. And remember that engineers also sweep and lay mines. Axis will have more difficult time doing it.

You keep saying more expensive repair units is unbalanced. Its not the case. Sturms are the strongest engineer, not the most flexible but the strongest.

The problem is that they may be on the strong side only early game. Later their reinforcement cost and price make them a burden, not an asset.

My point is, many guys above are screaming for a spamable repair unit, i thought this ideal worth discussion.

Yeah people have had your idea before. Imo assault tommies would just stomp okw. Sturms can at least defend themselves against that right now

Imagine thinking your repair squad is a shock troop and pretending you don't have repair automatons waiting at base.

I don't if I go battlegroup. Plus try retreating a damaged engine vehicle to Ur base. And SB did the counting for U when it comes to costs of 2v3 engies

I don't if I go battlegroup. Plus try retreating a damaged engine vehicle to Ur base. And SB did the counting for U when it comes to costs of 2v3 engies

"I personally don't buy X therefore X does not exist" is not an argument.

Also, if you can't get your vehicle alife to your base, you MOST CERTAINLY will NOT BE ABLE TO repair it on field.

But p4 isn't much better than allied mediums. It is just different. It is more expensive and has a bit more armour an slightly better gun. It does not have the crew, does not have stock smoke, etc. Blitz is a muni paid ability. The differences are too small, especially if you look at the price and the fact it will deal with larger infantry squads which can almost all be upgraded with bazookas, piats etc. Looking at the complete picture p4 might be even considered inferior to allied mediums. Same for panther which is often a worse choice than a comet, for exaple. Basically those vehicles are too similar to say that axis have better tanks.


Again, like above. Those vehicles are largely similar to the allied rooster combining 3 factions and lots of doctrinal tanks. KT has too little firepower to make sense in most games. It will just tank damage and have to be retreated for repairs. Most often it will cost the player too much to make it a sensible choice.

The only difference is that they generally have inferior range and get those extra shots when charging and then will spend a lot of time repairing and it forces axis to invest a lot of manpower into repair units which allies get much more cheaply.

No. It is often the other way around. T70 works for both armoured targets and infantry. As OKW you need 2 vehicles to do the same. And it is really difficult to keep them operational when all allied (2 factions) infantry can grab a list or Bazooka. Soviets have a lot of ptrs units. So those vehicles get damaged even more than allied vehicles of similar type and you cannot say that they will need less repair.

Not true. And remember that engineers also sweep and lay mines. Axis will have more difficult time doing it.

The problem is that they may be on the strong side only early game. Later their reinforcement cost and price make them a burden, not an asset.

You are really using mental gymnastics here. The okw p4 inirior to allied meds? Just a bit more armour? It has 70 more armour. 80 more then the t34. A bit... come dude. You must be trolling. It has a lot more staying power with better damage however slightly that is.

What is hard about getting a second pio squad to help repair? Nothing. Dont repair on the front line thats all you need not to do.
Same with sturms okw saves lots of mp via self heal and can easely reimburce a second sturms squad.

The mistake is having the kt stock. It will always become the main focus, its gun is really powerfull at and ai. You cant ignore it as allies, if you do it will cost you the game.
That you think it gun is so weak it meningless says it all.
Again all allied td's have been buffed almost soley to deal with the kt. It cant bounce all day long anymore, its not prtected by the shreckblib anymore, it wont save you recources to rebuy it instanty if you even lose it. It wont singelhandidly bleed you opponent dry because it can be damaged frequently now. It has to repair now.

Dude the t70 usualy doesnt make it to the late game mostly. Its at is overrated greatly. The luch and aa track come so early thats why you cant have them be at and ai. Okw has the t0 raketten to deal with early vehicles.

And higher armour, faster tanks dont reduce damage taken esp facing tanks and atguns with lower pen and rof gotcha. That also doesnt free up pio,s or sturm to lay mines and sweep for mines gotcha.

You pay so much for sturms cuz they can heal, do cqb, get shrecks or sweep, lay mines, salvage, repair, put away the sweeper. That some of that is not used or less ussefull later on is irrelevant. Okw can go repair pio hq to free sturm from repairing.

You are really using mental gymnastics here. The okw p4 inirior to allied meds? Just a bit more armour? It has 70 more armour. 80 more then the t34. A bit... come dude. You must be trolling. It has a lot more staying power with better damage however slightly that is.

What is hard about getting a second pio squad to help repair? Nothing. Dont repair on the front line thats all you need not to do.
Same with sturms okw saves lots of mp via self heal and can easely reimburce a second sturms squad.

The mistake is having the kt stock. It will always become the main focus, its gun is really powerfull at and ai. You cant ignore it as allies, if you do it will cost you the game.
That you think it gun is so weak it meningless says it all.
Again all allied td's have been buffed almost soley to deal with the kt. It cant bounce all day long anymore, its not prtected by the shreckblib anymore, it wont save you recources to rebuy it instanty if you even lose it. It wont singelhandidly bleed you opponent dry because it can be damaged frequently now. It has to repair now.

Dude the t70 usualy doesnt make it to the late game mostly. Its at is overrated greatly. The luch and aa track come so early thats why you cant have them be at and ai. Okw has the t0 raketten to deal with early vehicles.

And higher armour, faster tanks dont reduce damage taken esp facing tanks and atguns with lower pen and rof gotcha. That also doesnt free up pio,s or sturm to lay mines and sweep for mines gotcha.

You pay so much for sturms cuz they can heal, do cqb, get shrecks or sweep, lay mines, salvage, repair, put away the sweeper. That some of that is not used or less ussefull later on is irrelevant. Okw can go repair pio hq to free sturm from repairing.

Trying to reason with achpawel or ulumulu is pointless. You can try to explain, they will just use "No u" arguments. Leave it be. Just don't reply to those people.

Yeah people have had your idea before. Imo assault tommies would just stomp okw. Sturms can at least defend themselves against that right now

So basically you want cheaper repair unit but dont want to give up on OP stating engineer.

Also, i said the stating stum will still have stg pre upgrade, an stg squad with cheaper, more quickly arrive mp40 stum is more than enough to defense again assault section, which have a cooldown to call in.

Imagine thinking your repair squad is a shock troop and pretending you don't have repair automatons waiting at base.

Imagine that repair automations lay mines, can be upgraded with flamer/bazooka/piat, can sweep, cap and snare other vehicles.

So basically you want cheaper repair unit but dont want to give up on OP stating engineer.

Also, i said the stating stum will still have stg pre upgrade, an stg squad with cheaper, more quickly arrive mp40 stum is more than enough to defense again assault section, which have a cooldown to call in.

From what I remember You kept repeating that UKF (especially sections) needed buffs. I hope U see the results.

how about once all OKW trucks are deployed, ST-pios get acess to a timed repair boost +25 faster rep for 10-15 seconds?

repair truck is not something that breaks the game, if there are 2+ mech-trucks parked together in teamgames yes, it becomes a hassle, but also very exposed if out in the field, either keep it back in base, which is fine for faster tanks, but if you gotta drive slow or engine-crippled tanks back to repair them, its a pain in the ***.
If deployed in the field, its a prime target for hit and run dives or artillery.

repair trucks are a bonus to have, but not a replacement for ST-pios, and getting 2 ST-pio's is 600MP and 16 pop, high cost.

how about once all OKW trucks are deployed, ST-pios get acess to a timed repair boost +25 faster rep for 10-15 seconds?

repair truck is not something that breaks the game, if there are 2+ mech-trucks parked together in teamgames yes, it becomes a hassle, but also very exposed if out in the field, either keep it back in base, which is fine for faster tanks, but if you gotta drive slow or engine-crippled tanks back to repair them, its a pain in the ***.
If deployed in the field, its a prime target for hit and run dives or artillery.

repair trucks are a bonus to have, but not a replacement for ST-pios, and getting 2 ST-pio's is 600MP and 16 pop, high cost.

Repair trucks are there so if your sturms are busy or dead you are not without. The entire OKW was designed around managing if you lose your important units (or tech trucks). Losing your shit is supposed to hurt and the faction most rewarded for keeping their shit alive is hurt the most for losing them. If you don't put your sturms on the front odds of losing them are drastically reduced, as is their impact. If you want to leverage their initial impact you risk losing them. It's as risk/reward as any design can be. Well not quite since you CAN get repair dudes on your truck to metigate the loss slightly. But it's up to the player to decide if the risk is worth the reward.

Risk/reward.

Thedarkarmadillo
a very fair point

Actually its a good idea for stums to have upgradable StG for 50-60 muni. With base price droped to ~250 MP and starting weapon being ass.grens MP40 or even Kars. I dont know why ppl hating it.

Starting squad can still have StGs by default to not mess up faction corrent balance. And StG might also lock out schreck upgrade.

Loosing early sturms will still be a blow to your economy and overall damage output, but it wont mess whole OKW early\mid game.

Maybe even it would make UKF\USF\Penals match up better because MP40 sturms would make them an optional support squad for volks.

So basically you want cheaper repair unit but dont want to give up on OP stating engineer.

Also, i said the stating stum will still have stg pre upgrade, an stg squad with cheaper, more quickly arrive mp40 stum is more than enough to defense again assault section, which have a cooldown to call in.

I don't recall asking for cheaper anything, just stating that nerfing sturms is a bad idea because okw would just get rolled. If you want that to happen then that's fine with me I guess

You are really using mental gymnastics here.

This is sth I'd use to describe players who don't see the obvious - it is really manpower heavy to repair/sweep/mine with a 300mp unit that has 30mp reinforcement cost. That is real mental gymnastics not to see that and start talking about the (perceived) superiority of axis armour.

The okw p4 inirior to allied meds? Just a bit more armour? It has 70 more armour. 80 more then the t34. A bit... come dude. You must be trolling. It has a lot more staying power with better damage however slightly that is.

Which does not even need to transfer into additional AT shot. Let alone the fact that hand held at stuff can be equipped on almost anything and just dish damage continuously.

What is hard about getting a second pio squad to help repair? Nothing. Dont repair on the front line thats all you need not to do.
Same with sturms okw saves lots of mp via self heal and can easely reimburce a second sturms squad.

This an example of extreme mental gymnastics.

The mistake is having the kt stock. It will always become the main focus, its gun is really powerfull at and ai. You cant ignore it as allies, if you do it will cost you the game.

For the price of 1 KT You can but 2 medium tanks/tanks TD, and still have some resources for infantry. The cost efficiency of KT is so bad that either a player has already won the game and just builds it for fun, or You should be happy seeing it as it will mean they will lose the game soon.

That you think it gun is so weak it meningless says it all.

I never wrote it is meaningless. IMO it is much worse to have one tiger than two other tanks (TD+premium medium, for example)

Again all allied td's have been buffed almost soley to deal with the kt. It cant bounce all day long anymore, its not prtected by the shreckblib anymore, it wont save you recources to rebuy it instanty if you even lose it. It wont singelhandidly bleed you opponent dry because it can be damaged frequently now. It has to repair now.

How is that piece of text related to expensive sturms or state of OKW? Allied TDs are basically very potent and shut most axis medium armour completely. It is a bit unfair to say the least.

Dude the t70 usualy doesnt make it to the late game mostly. Its at is overrated greatly. The luch and aa track come so early thats why you cant have them be at and ai. Okw has the t0 raketten to deal with early vehicles.

But I specifically used this example to prove that one allied tank is enough and to deal with it OKW will need a puma and to deal with infantry it will need Luchs. I only wrot it to show that axis may need more tanks than allies - you suggested that allies have usually more tanks. And t-70 is one of the most imbalanced units in game (probably next to UKF Valentine).

And higher armour, faster tanks dont reduce damage taken esp facing tanks and atguns with lower pen and rof gotcha. That also doesnt free up pio,s or sturm to lay mines and sweep for mines gotcha.

This fragment - I don't understand, especially gotcha part. Just play the axis mate for a while at least and try to get to similar level with them.

You pay so much for sturms cuz they can heal, do cqb, get shrecks or sweep, lay mines, salvage, repair, put away the sweeper. That some of that is not used or less ussefull later on is irrelevant. Okw can go repair pio hq to free sturm from repairing.

Another example of mental gymnastics. It still is much worse than having 3 CEs. Mate - just face the reality. It is really harder to repair Ur tanks/vehicles as OKW. OKW is in terrible spot right now imo. Much more difficult to play than all allied factions. Instead of repeating myths You could try to pinpoint where the problems are. But to do that You would have to play them...

Trying to reason with achpawel or ulumulu is pointless. You can try to explain, they will just use "No u" arguments. Leave it be. Just don't reply to those people.

Well, it's the other way around. We both have higher ranks with allied factions and can play them well. This is basically the condition to play axis and have any chance of winning against a similarly skilled opponent. But playing axis you still often lose to some OP allied stuff. More because of their economy than because of a single unit. Volks were left behind after the last patches. I don't understand so many negative feeling towards an idea that actually does not really buff them.

Repair trucks are there so if your sturms are busy or dead you are not without. The entire OKW was designed around managing if you lose your important units (or tech trucks). Losing your shit is supposed to hurt and the faction most rewarded for keeping their shit alive is hurt the most for losing them. If you don't put your sturms on the front odds of losing them are drastically reduced, as is their impact. If you want to leverage their initial impact you risk losing them. It's as risk/reward as any design can be. Well not quite since you CAN get repair dudes on your truck to metigate the loss slightly. But it's up to the player to decide if the risk is worth the reward.

Risk/reward.

Yes - original design. But after all allied buffs. Now it is mostly high risk/little reward. While with UKF, for example, it has become little risk/high reward.