Is the WC 51 overperforming ?

From my experience.

Wc51 has way too much utility for such a cheap unit regardless doctoral or not and can be quite oppressive in comparison to other ultra lights.

I would defiantly start by removing the artillery and mayby Mark target, their isn't any reason for it to have those. I know this wouldn't make too much sense, but also remove the ability to carry troops after upgrading.

Calv rifle men are decent, after the t Thompson upgrade you can still equip them with a bar but honestly they are still fine without it.

Combined arms from my experience is a criminally underrated ability. I haven't seen anyone even in streams ever use it when they could.

As for the 76mm, works extremely well against tier 3 wher, beyond that it falls flat (unless its vet 3).The bulldozer blades up-grade makes up for it through.

I guess the commander does not have a good late game and thats why it tries to balance it out by a very good 0cp unit. 76mm fails to do anything, I mean who would make a 76mm to counter T4 units of axis, it is bad in AI as compared to M4 and bad in AT as compared to Jackson. Has the same armor and hp as m4 so 4 shots kill it and not much bounces frontally when it goes against p4. I don't know why is it even present for USF, very unused commander if not for early meme games.

If you do nerf WC 51 then the commander would be totally useless.

The 76mm also has great AT compared to M4 and great AI compared to Jackson.

It does not "fails to do anything".

WC51 was buffed through the roof in December patch to "justify" taking up a commander slot and then it was bundled with m3.

The commander gives access to 5 doctrinal vehicles, 1 doctrinal infantry, combined arms, mark target, 155mm barrage which is allot more than most commanders provide.

Claiming tha a nef to WC51 will make the commander "totally useless" is simply false.

the WC51 certainly has too much range for a 200mp 45 ammo vehicle

For its cost, the WC51 is substantially overperforming.

Take away its ability to turn into a formula 1 car for free, its ability to outrange infantry, its ability to carry squads, its ability to mark target and its ability to call in artillery and it will STILL be 10x better than the kubel, a unit that is actually more expensive.

Yes it is overpeforming.

200 MP + 45 munitions vs 210 MP. No, the WC51 is NOT more expensive than the Kubelwagon.

the jeep is a lot of fun to use, needs to be strong, its sort of the whole point of the doctrine.

But OP it is.
-remove/change arty call-in
-remove mark target
-remove the (exit vehicle,fix itself and give wc51 to allies thingamajig)

From my experience.

Calv rifle men are decent, after the t Thompson upgrade you can still equip them with a bar but honestly they are still fine without it.

Combined arms from my experience is a criminally underrated ability. I haven't seen anyone even in streams ever use it when they could.

As for the 76mm, works extremely well against tier 3 wher, beyond that it falls flat (unless its vet 3).The bulldozer blades up-grade makes up for it through.

Cavalry Riflemen are a close quarter combat unit where the WC 51 is a long range AI unit, they don't synchronize well with each other if you select your commanders on the basis of the map.

Combined arms is good and effective when you blob and have more than 1 tank and that too costs 125 munitions just for fast reload and +5 range. It has to be used carefully. The only good thing in this commander.

tier 3 wehrmacht so is about 15-20 min mark so you yourself admit that 76 mm sucks after the 15-20 min mark? Well thats what I am saying that commander is no good if you ever watch a <250 rank matches unless the guy is memeing or out to have fun.

Additionally, the vehicles of OST and OKW always arrive earlier as compared to allied factions (except AEC), 222 which arrives way earlier than any allied faction can get its counter, can easily kill the WC51 since the Allied factions are pretty weak on snares. Same goes for luchs or t0 At. Believe me it is difficult for the WC51 to stay alive past the 5min mark when the axis units have veterancy. So mark target and barrage for effective targets becomes ineffective since it struggles to live past the 5 min mark.

The 76mm also has great AT compared to M4 and great AI compared to Jackson.

It does not "fails to do anything".

WC51 was buffed through the roof in December patch to "justify" taking up a commander slot and then it was bundled with m3.

The commander gives access to 5 doctrinal vehicles, 1 doctrinal infantry, combined arms, mark target, 155mm barrage which is allot more than most commanders provide.

Claiming tha a nef to WC51 will make the commander "totally useless" is simply false.

Are you trolling again? Comparing 76mm's AI with Jackson when Jackson has no AI and AT with M4 when M4's AT finds it tough to go toe-to-toe against pz4? While comparing dolphins with humans would you consider swimming or running?

I don't remember the 5 vehicles do list them out will help me. The last 3 things are found in the WC 51 which a lot but it barely is able to survive past the 5 min mark or when the early axis light vehicles hit the field.

And you are correct WC51 nerf will not make the commander totally useless since it is already totally useless with the WC51 in it and also if this commander provides a lot of doc vehicles or abilities why does it fails to even make the top3 for USF commanders? You won't even find this commander in the loadout of <250 rank matches.

I guess the commander does not have a good late game and thats why it tries to balance it out by a very good 0cp unit. 76mm fails to do anything, I mean who would make a 76mm to counter T4 units of axis, it is bad in AI as compared to M4 and bad in AT as compared to Jackson. Has the same armor and hp as m4 so 4 shots kill it and not much bounces frontally when it goes against p4. I don't know why is it even present for USF, very unused commander if not for early meme games.

If you do nerf WC 51 then the commander would be totally useless.

76mm is bad? Wot.

I guess the commander does not have a good late game and thats why it tries to balance it out by a very good 0cp unit. 76mm fails to do anything, I mean who would make a 76mm to counter T4 units of axis, it is bad in AI as compared to M4 and bad in AT as compared to Jackson. Has the same armor and hp as m4 so 4 shots kill it and not much bounces frontally when it goes against p4. I don't know why is it even present for USF, very unused commander if not for early meme games.

If you do nerf WC 51 then the commander would be totally useless.

He is already useless in 2v2. And 3x3 and 4x4 may not be mentioned at all. Remember, VonIvan tried to play in a tournament with this commander, and he lost several games, then he admitted here on the forum that this commander does not work.

I have not seen a single WC51 ever in 2on2 as OST player. Do you have any replays or casts?

I have not seen too.

Are you trolling again?

There is no need for comment like this. I would appreciate it if did not continued

Comparing 76mm's AI with Jackson when Jackson has no AI and AT with M4 when M4's AT finds it tough to go toe-to-toe against pz4? While comparing dolphins with humans would you consider swimming or running?

Let me try to explain this to you once more.

M4 HE has the best AI round than any medium tank. 76mm Sherman having inferior AI gun than M4 HE does not mean much.

Jackson is a TD and has better AT than all medium tank. 76mm Sherman have inferior AT gun than
Jackson does not mean much.

I don't remember the 5 vehicles do list them out will help me.

WC51,m3,MHT,76mm, upgraded Sherman

The last 3 things are found in the WC 51 which a lot but it barely is able to survive past the 5 min mark or when the early axis light vehicles hit the field.

Since it does not need any veterancy to use mark target or use 155mm barrage it does not matter if it can not survive pass the 5 min. One can simply build a new one and use the ability.

One can even use the crew to repair vehicles.

And you are correct WC51 nerf will not make the commander totally useless since it is already totally useless with the WC51 in it and also if this commander provides a lot of doc vehicles or abilities why does it fails to even make the top3 for USF commanders? You won't even find this commander in the loadout of <250 rank matches.

Ok if in your opinion the commander is already useless nerfing the WC51 should not be an issue since it would make little difference.

As for the mechanized commander it was actually the second most used commander in 2019 world Championship and it has not been nerfed since then.

I think it should have a little more HP and less armor. It's pretty flimsy but sometimes you get some really frustrating RNG in the early game and just can't pen it with anything. That'd help with being able to more consistently force it off with small arms fire and would also give it a lengthier repair time.

The WC51 should lose artillery and Mark Target. It's an excellent early game unit that doesn't need these incongruous abilities bolted onto it in the name of 'late game relevance.'

Take away its ability to turn into a formula 1 car for free, its ability to outrange infantry, its ability to carry squads, its ability to mark target and its ability to call in artillery and it will STILL be 10x better than the kubel, a unit that is actually more expensive.

Yes it is overpeforming.

to solve problem, just give any of these abilities to kubel, and all OKW mains will not complain that OKW weak

I think it should have a little more HP and less armor. It's pretty flimsy but sometimes you get some really frustrating RNG in the early game and just can't pen it with anything. That'd help with being able to more consistently force it off with small arms fire and would also give it a lengthier repair time.

+1 they have done this for other lights and it made them better for both sides. Makes their performance more consistent

Generally speaking all micro light vehicles should be looked at. There HP/armor values, DPS, weapon DPS curves and moving DPS are all over the place.

wc-51 micro light vehicle?

I don't think you have ever used it in your life.

There is no LV in the game that is "micro light".

Generally speaking all micro light vehicles should be looked at. There HP/armor values, DPS, weapon DPS curves and moving DPS are all over the place.

wc-51 micro light vehicle?

I don't think you have ever used it in your life.

There is no LV in the game that is "micro light".

So first I do agree that "micro" light vehicles have some... interesting characteristics, the only exception being perhaps the UC since its received the most recent reworks.

Second, I assume Vipper is referring to "light" light vehicles-stuff smaller then the 222 like the soviet M3, kubel, wc51 and UC. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with adding an extra label to distinguish what particular class of vehicles we are talking about, though it can be confusing if one begins using this new specification without clarifying what it means beforehand.

So first I do agree that "micro" light vehicles have some... interesting characteristics, the only exception being perhaps the UC since its received the most recent reworks.

Second, I assume Vipper is referring to "light" light vehicles-stuff smaller then the 222 like the soviet M3, kubel, wc51 and UC. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with adding an extra label to distinguish what particular class of vehicles we are talking about, though it can be confusing if one begins using this new specification without clarifying what it means beforehand.

Your assumption is correct.

LV can range from kubel to Stuart and I was talking for the units you mention (possibly +m20 without skirts,221).

If one is genuinely confused one can simply ask for clarifications.