USF Calliope balancing

Jump back to quoted post31 Jul 2020, 17:00 PMthedarkarmadillo

Zu fus could eliminate an entire defensive line, weapons included with pinpoint accuracy while also coming drastically sooner and being cheaper than the calliope.

Frankly, imo, the calliope should be a Sherman variant or upgrade with a munitions barrage like the firefly. It puts strain on the economy for over use which is a balancing factor on its own but also justifies its durability slightly more.

I don't remember the exact cost since it was changed a bit ago, but you are basicly paying more for a worse katyusha EXCEPT that it's more durable.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2020, 07:18 AMKlement Pikhtura

I think this may be problematic, since it introduces the issue of rather safe shotgun barrages.

Jump back to quoted post1 Aug 2020, 14:37 PMthedarkarmadillo

That's exactly what you pay so much for. I can absolutely get behind a 320hp mark but it's meant to be durable it is in fact it's iconic trait. The werfer has accuracy and alpha strike, the Katy has flexibility of range, the Stuka has high yield and accurate aiming, the mattress is damn near impossible to end for good since it can be recrewed and the calliope can get in and out of squiffy areas and deliver cheeky barrages. When it goes in for that shotgun barrage is when you jump it.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 03:33 AMGachiGasm

Still I dont see any logical explanation why 400HP is justified, while 360 is not, aside from abstruct one "its premium", "it has to be durable", "its a tank" and so on.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 15:14 PMSkysTheLimit

I'm fine with 360, but I don't understand your confusion. It's the most expensive rocket artillery, and it's not even stock. Pretty good reasons right there if you ask me...

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 15:14 PMSkysTheLimit

I'm fine with 360, but I don't understand your confusion. It's the most expensive rocket artillery, and it's not even stock. Pretty good reasons right there if you ask me...

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 15:28 PMVipper

Even if it is "justified" it bad from gameplay/designed point of view since Calliope are very hard counter. They can not be countered by artillery/off maps while one has to dive and risk more expensive unit to try to kill them. Even if one succeeds in killing the with a dive he might end up losing a more expensive unit and thus have a bad trade.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 15:52 PMDescolata

Literally all of that applies to the SZF, just the SZF will be at max firing range.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:00 PMHannibal

When diving a medium, Allies pay either 5 fuel less or 10 more (neglecting MP here) than the SZF. If your medium needs three shots to kill it, you are actually very unlucky.
Conversely, if Axis mediums dive the Calliope and kill it with three shots you're already lucky while still potentially downtrading 15-35 fuel.

This completely neglects offensive capabilities of the rocket arty, but I think most people complain about the survivability.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 15:28 PMVipper

Snip

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 15:52 PMHannibal

Snip

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:20 PMSkysTheLimit

You guys did read the "im fine with 360" part, right?

I've thought the Calliope is bad design for ages. Should be weaker but stock, late-game artillery should not require doctrine for some and be always there for others

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:20 PMSkysTheLimit

@Hannibal. 10-15? That only applies to w. Stuka (which can arrive way earlier), it's 30 more fuel than Katy and werfer

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:10 PMDescolata

Just, both Calliope and SZF are very survivable and obnoxious to deal with. One has health, other has range, both don't have clear cost effective counters.

SZF is generally DEEP behind lines, as it has no reason not to be, unless striking behind the lines.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:26 PMVipper

Then we agree, my point was that even if it "justified" for price it can still be problematic especially if it is difficult to counter.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:26 PMVipper

Well when talking about cost one has to keep in mind that Calliope has no tech cost especially when compared to katy and wefer.

Imo it rather difficult to find the correct way to balance the unit (one could start by increasing minimum range) but urban commander adds to problem of Calliope since it offers simply to much. The unit should simply not be in that commander.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:33 PMSkysTheLimit

I'm well aware of the tech cost vipper, I literally just mentioned that for the walking stuka. Having access to rocket arty EVERY game no matter what > than no tech cost if you happen to pick the commanders. That was my point

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:39 PMGachiGasm

Is it really a problem? As USF you have arguable best pak howi, you have mobile mortar unit like scott, which cant be counter artied. You have access to phosphore to counter bunched up team weapons or blobs.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:26 PMVipper

UKF dont have rocket arty or mobile mortar if you dont pick a commander.

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:33 PMSkysTheLimit

Do we? Do you think the calliope should be stock? Or are you taking that underlined sentence out of context and choosing to isolate it?

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:33 PMSkysTheLimit

I'm well aware of the tech cost vipper, I literally just mentioned that for the walking stuka. Having access to rocket arty EVERY game no matter what > than no tech cost if you happen to pick the commanders. That was my point

Jump back to quoted post2 Aug 2020, 16:45 PMSkysTheLimit

It's the best "mortar" in the game sure, and it gets deleted easily by.... Guess what... Late-game arty. 5 man crew that needs 3 guys, so one single rocket can de-crew it