AEC and Bofors Tech.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 09:23 AMullumulu

snip

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 09:33 AMHannibal

For once just read what the topic is actually about.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 08:46 AMHannibal

... I don't know what would be the best course of action here since the UC has a narrow window and IS are difficult to touch.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 09:45 AMullumulu

"Now, let's talk about the Bofors... Pretty much everyone here can agree that Emplacements, by design, are outdated and are too easy of a target for artillery, and, in such modes as 3v3-4v4 only can be somewhat useful, but for a very small window, again, due to arty (again, I suppose and can be wrong, if I am-tell me). So I thought, what about to buff the Bofors a bit? Give it a cost decrease for the tech from 15Fuel to 10, with 15s decrease in the required time, while the Bofors itself has a Fuel cost increase (up to 40), and MP cost decrease (no idea how much MP it costs, I never use it). I also wanted to make the Bofors tech decrease the cost of the Mortar pit from 350MP to 320-300MP, but the increase in the cost of the tech itself up to 20Fuel +MP, to make it somewhat fair.
"

its pretty much a buff for emplacments...or what else?

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 09:53 AMVipper

This is a problem create by allowing increasing powerful unit available earlier. The window of opportunity for some of those units has become very small and thus their shock value has been increased too much to even be considered to be built. That can easily lead to snowball effects.

Imo the pace of the game should be slowed down allowing more time for each phase of the game and more more options should be available for to counter light vehicles.

For instance Ostheer could get the 221 in durable version with limited AI but good at fighting cars and snipers and then 222 could be be delay become more expensive and become more AT oriented.

Flame vehicles could have their DOT moved to an ability so that they remain effective but for a limited timed.

All that would reduce the need for early AEC or for an OP T-70.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 09:53 AMVipper

This is a problem create by allowing increasing powerful unit available earlier. The window of opportunity for some of those units has become very small and thus their shock value has been increased too much to even be considered to be built. That can easily lead to snowball effects.

Imo the pace of the game should be slowed down allowing more time for each phase of the game and more more options should be available for to counter light vehicles.

For instance Ostheer could get the 221 in durable version with limited AI but good at fighting cars and snipers and then 222 could be be delay become more expensive and become more AT oriented.

Flame vehicles could have their DOT moved to an ability so that they remain effective but for a limited timed.

All that would reduce the need for early AEC or for an OP T-70.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 09:53 AMVipper

This is a problem create by allowing increasing powerful unit available earlier. The window of opportunity for some of those units has become very small and thus their shock value has been increased too much to even be considered to be built. That can easily lead to snowball effects.

Imo the pace of the game should be slowed down allowing more time for each phase of the game and more more options should be available for to counter light vehicles.

For instance Ostheer could get the 221 in durable version with limited AI but good at fighting cars and snipers and then 222 could be be delay become more expensive and become more AT oriented.

Flame vehicles could have their DOT moved to an ability so that they remain effective but for a limited timed.

All that would reduce the need for early AEC or for an OP T-70.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 11:00 AMHannibal

While I generally agree, I think this is way out of scope for CoH2. It would mean reworking the whole pricing and balance for basically every unit and ability in the game.

Also it depends on what kind of game you want, because at the moment a normal game lasts between 20-50 minutes. Slowing everything down would mean that games would regularly reach the 1 hour mark and more and not everyone wants to play these type of games.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 11:00 AMHannibal

The need for an early AEC could have been fixed by a different design of the faction. It's a remnant of bad emplacement design while the game has been (at least now) balanced around vehicle play and received a very prominent LV phase. But Brits where not designed to have a LV, the AEC was supposed to be optional.
I agree with Sir Edgelord here, we have to make small steps and try to improve what we got, even if this means that some results will always be subpar.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 10:36 AMKatitof

OKW puma arrives before T-70, reducing its window of opportunity to zero.
What's your suggestion to address that?

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 11:00 AMHannibal

While I generally agree, I think this is way out of scope for CoH2. It would mean reworking the whole pricing and balance for basically every unit and ability in the game.

Also it depends on what kind of game you want, because at the moment a normal game lasts between 20-50 minutes. Slowing everything down would mean that games would regularly reach the 1 hour mark and more and not everyone wants to play these type of games.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 11:22 AMVipper

Making the game last longer and reducing the pace are not directly related. One would simply not see Panther/Comet/Churchill/Burmbar in every game.


I have been advocating for small changes even when Relic was in charge:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/52735/balance-mod-trying-to-kill-a-fly-with-sledgehammer

This is also part of the reason why I reluctant to post in thread. On the other hand emplacement need a redesign and light vehicle play should be looked. I am simply pointing at what is correct direction imo, the speed of these changes is another matter.

Jump back to quoted post21 Jul 2020, 12:04 PMHannibal

Well it depends. CoH2's core are tanks and playing with mediums is a big part of the game and fun. If you push them from ~15 min to ~25-30 min then they don't see much time anymore, especially not if you want two. And even if you get two of them out, at least the second one will barely make a difference anymore since the game can already be decided by the time it rolls out. Game length is mostly defined by the VP tick rate every 4 seconds and sets our standard games to 20-50 mins. And finally infantry play will become more important, which would likely cause a rework of MP economy since you cannot fill up free population with vehicles as quickly. This subject includes way more than just vehicle timings and should be discussed in a separate topic, so I'll leave it at that.

For the time being and to come back to topic I'll leave it at the suggestions that I made with the AEC. Not sure if UKF emplacements are fixable, but if they are it will need more than a few tweaks.