Nerf spec ops flares

There's a lot of things wrong with spec ops flares. Their cooldown is barely longer than their duration, meaning constant recon if you want, there's no warning when they're being used against you and your camera has to be at the exact right angle to even see them, you can put them wherever you want, and there's no way to counter them.

Honestly they should just be removed and replaced by a recon overflight or infantry-fired flares like pfusies and USF rifle company riflemen have.

Alternatively, quote from Shadowlink: "If they were 150 muni, people wouldn't spam them"

“There’s no warning they’ve been used against you”

You mean aside from the flares that light up the whole area and are impossible to miss?

“There’s no warning they’ve been used against you”

You mean aside from the flares that light up the whole area and are impossible to miss?

Theye definitely not impossible to miss. And they dont light up anything if they arent for your team? You already see whats there

It has always been a horribly overpowered ability with absolutely no counterplay. It has probably been overlooked a bit since the nerfs of the command panther, but in team games (and particularly on choke-pointy maps) it is just a terrible game mechanic as it allows rocket arty and other long range weapons to just go crazy for no risk.

My personal advocation has long been to make it grant longer sight range to units in the area of effect so that some risk is required in the form of actually sending units into the enemy territory. It seems that Sander93 has achieved something to this effect in his latest mod:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/106030/sander-s-personal-balance-changes

Show Spoiler

Honestly, this is probably superior to plane scouting in terms of game mechanics given the troubled role of AA weapons and how planes are apparently killed with random deflections rather than actual HP damage(?).

“There’s no warning they’ve been used against you”

You mean aside from the flares that light up the whole area and are impossible to miss?

You ever play against spec ops flares in a teamgame where a lot of things are going on? Not terribly hard to miss, they need to be viewed from just the right camera placement to even appear on screen and the lighting effects are sort of map-dependent and not super hard to miss either. Ability makes almost no noise and the visual cues are really missable. Much harder to see than other flare abilities.

It has always been a horribly overpowered ability with absolutely no counterplay. It has probably been overlooked a bit since the nerfs of the command panther, but in team games (and particularly on choke-pointy maps) it is just a terrible game mechanic as it allows rocket arty and other long range weapons to just go crazy for no risk.

My personal advocation has long been to make it grant longer sight range to units in the area of effect so that some risk is required in the form of actually sending units into the enemy territory. It seems that Sander93 has achieved something to this effect in his latest mod:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/106030/sander-s-personal-balance-changes

Show Spoiler

Honestly, this is probably superior to plane scouting in terms of game mechanics given the troubled role of AA weapons and how planes are apparently killed with random deflections rather than actual HP damage(?).

That's a pretty cool idea. +1

why is it OP when brit has this flares to in several commanders which pops up even mostly the whole map...not only a single spot?

get your "axis Op" shirt of

It's a strong recon, but it's the main ability of the commander, asside of the command panther.

All the other recons in other commanders are like bonus abilities to several other strong abilities.

So imo it deserves to be a bit better. Maybe you could add the sound of some artillery guns firing them

I'm glad a commander ability is meant to be powerful, it is not really hard to notice it and it make a specific sound and cover a smaller area than a recon plane, while the english counterpart is buggy as hell and could cover the whole country on some maps.

He is meant to be a precise ability which doesn't last as long as the Recon plane and doesn't cover a wide area.

why is it OP when brit has this flares to in several commanders which pops up even mostly the whole map...not only a single spot?

get your "axis Op" shirt of

Only Artillery has these non- unit based flares, Early Warning. It is also a problem.

CD needs an obvious nerf

Replace it with capture point flares from Overwatch doctrine and its balanced.

Only Artillery has these non- unit based flares, Early Warning. It is also a problem.

when i remember right...croc come with these flares to

since allies have Antiair which shot down any planes when they on the map in 2sec...axis need something to have recon....or maybe they should nerf the antiair halftrack from allies so they cant shot down planes so fast

The Spec Ops flares are OP and a horrible design.

The problem is that without it Spec Ops will become even less viable and making the doctrine worse is not a very good idea regarding balance as it's already mediocre as it is.

IMO making the flares more expensive would be the easiest fix.

why is it OP when brit has this flares to in several commanders which pops up even mostly the whole map...not only a single spot?

get your "axis Op" shirt of

While still in need of a change arty flares are nothing compared to spec ops flares.
Spec ops flare are more OP because of cost- being cheaper, the exact same price as a Recon plane, actually its easier to make use of
Flexibility--you get vision EXACTLY where you want it. This is why say, major recon, even vetted up with multiple planes is less attractive than a normal recon plane. It can't miss. From a building on the front to an atry piece in the rear. You see what you want.
Stealth--while ukf flares cover a wide area, that also makes them more Lilley to be seen as well, giving away to the enemy that they are being reconed

Spec ops flares are OP because of those reasons. They lack counteplay and despite that are extremely flexible and cost effecient.

Strap them to the command Panther and call it a day

when i remember right...croc come with these flares to

ah yes the super op flares you pop every time you have 230 fuel, 640 mp and you dont have particular unit on field.

Each flare should be nerfed (offmap). Every faction, ally or axis should not have offmap flares that just light up half the map for the enemy. Flares should be on specific units (infantry, not tanks) and with a normal AOE and normal range of firing.

And ullumulu... just don't. That croc comment really buried you.

The OP is right. In teamgames, on most maps, flares + non doctrinal stuka/werfer can be too oppressing for the cost. Both factions should lose them, axis even more so.

That or buff up the price of flares (would still be a bad mechanic in games). Generally, every recon ability should be like vet0 major.

One or two plane pass over the battlefield, at medium velocity. Not too pricey, not too cheap, easy to shoot down. Recon that gives you the whereabouts of the enemy, without giving you the ample time and opportunity to spy on the enemy front lines (and bombard with stukas or werfers or ally LeHFs. Same for allies. (like flares + offmap to kill OKW trucks, even when extra expensive/oppressive, it's just bad gameplay)

Even when my teammate used flares on brit to give vision, it just seems so unrealistic and badly implemented.. You can be behind the Great Wall of China and pop flares behind it and instantly see through the walls.
Very technology, much impressive, such light. WOW