Nerf spec ops flares

Giving an new ability in the commander would be interesting, but i am not sure on what is fitting in theme with the commander. What remains for certain is that the flares in their current state offer too much potential with no way to counter it(basically what others have said in the last 2 pages) and thus warrants a change.

Yes they do, but I said in my original post I would start with increasing the CD and see from there.

The ability is not that great in 1vs1 and only becomes an issue in team-games.

First I'm not the one coming out with a thread asking for a nerf of an ability without showing any kind of evidence of why it would have to be so, if you want people to reply correctly at any of your request you have to be precise and show them a minimum of reflexion over why you came up with this idea, why they should follow this idea, and the whole illustrated with some example or numbers.

Yes you are that's exactly what you're doing. I've already explained why your example is terrible

What numbers do you want people to get? the statistics available for CoH are very limited. Common sense should be enough to tell you that an ability with ZERO counterplay isn't good for the game

Second,here there was just a lot of players motivated by their emotions more than by their reason calling for a nerf based on their subjective experience more than any concrete reflexion. Despite the lack of any evidence I provided example and even illustated it more than necessary to help some understand.

So now your claiming that everyone else's reasons are just emotional, but yours are rational. How unbiased of you....

It's not a good example. Your comparing abilities it makes ZERO sense to compare

Il-2 Bomb: have the ability to destroy ------> Need a drawback -----> red flares+vision to cast

Flares: don't have this ability to destroy -----> No need of a drawback -----> no need of those.

Now why is it uncounterable?

It's more expensive, it arrives later, and it needs vision. Stuka bomb works the same way, is also uncounterable. No one has a problem with this, and it shouldn't be hard to understand why: Both factions similar purposed abilities WORK THE SAME. Can't say the same about the recon

Planes: Cover a wider area, last longer, can reveal invisible units -----> Drawback: can be destroyed.

Flares: Smaller area, can't reveal invisible units ect... -------> No need of such drawback.

"Wider area" is crap, the plane circles so you're not getting all the vision at once. The specops vision area is plenty large

Who cares if it can detect stealth units if gets shot down immediately??? You can't detect anything if it's crashing down to the map......

Those ability are different and flares are unique, and I'm sure what motivates people to a nerf is more than this unique ability from a single commander is specific to the OKW than anything else.

Once again you are incorrect, I have said numerous times in this thread that the British Early warning ability should be nerfed as well

This has nothing to do with OKW. If nerfing this single doctrinal ability hurts OKW that much, then the faction already has bigger problems. If you think that's the case, go make a thread about them

Why can't we just replace it with recon plane? Read Previous post about reco units of the OKW and recent nerf of the IR-HT, you'll understand that without making it a good reco, nerfing the only real reco of the OKW isn't a good idea at all.

You mean your claim that they have no scouting even though they have kubel, IrHT, Puma, and two doctrines with Jaeger Lites? G43 fussies get extra vision AND have flare launchers

And they would still have a recon ability with spec ops. It would just be different...

It doesn't need to be dark at all. They do their job in anything but the brightest conditions.

Like hell it doesn't, but I'll humor you. Imagine firing one of those flares at a position that you have NO ONE looking at. You have no soldiers nearby, no one has any LoS on the area the flare is lighting up

Would it still provide reconnaissance? Like it does in CoH? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there isn't a little birdie with a radio attached to the flare....

Back to topic: recon flares is literally one of Spec Ops trade mark and best abilities, it needs to be strong.

BRB going to change the b4 back to the way it was at launch. Also FHQ now has an Aura again and can be used at the start of the match in any territory. Also tiger ace is once again indestructible. Soviet industry is a passive that allows for a 5 min T70. Brit arty regiment strike can once again be called in with iut line of sight. Zeroing arty can be called in in base sectors again. Brit arty cover ability applies crits and stuns again. Jagdtiger has all its range back and can shoot through terrain again.

As a matter of fact this balance forum is going to be shut down now. No more discussion and no more tweaks. If an ability is a trademark of a commander it CANNOT be changed even if it defies the rules of the game and The balance we aim to achieve.

I didnt say dont change it, I said dont replace it with a standard crappy plane recon. Adjust it, fine.

To those asking for statistics and evidence to back up this threads claim.

I've tried seeing how many AA quad halftracks it takes to shoot down/counter the flare and honestly the results were.....not good. Not good at all.

Same vs the Royal artillery flares too.

So perhaps we need to buff AA? Because surely the flares aren't uncounterable?

Why would it need to be 100% counterable? Loads of abilities are not. You counter it by reacting/ repositioning to them having vision.

Why would it need to be 100% counterable?

Doesn't have to be 100%, just not zero

You counter it by reacting/ repositioning to them having vision

Yup but you can do that for the recon plane and it's way easier to react to. It's louder, there's a giant plane flying around (in game AND on minimap) AND you can see the radius on the ground

and the soviet mortar flare! You can fire the flare and drop the mortar without shared cooldown.

flare sucks because they linger too long and open up too many areas. nulifying the idea of truesight tactics.

make them like trip wire flare.

I agree it could do with adjusting to make it slightly easier to spot.

Bit recon planes are a very secondary ability in other commanders, spec op flares are a premium ability of the commander.