Nerf spec ops flares

The flares are fine. The last thing we need is more nerfing/buffing of things because they’re supposedly OP in team games.

Same cost as a recon plane. None of the drawbacks. Rather, NO drawbacks. It doesn't even alert you on the mini map like a plane does. It's not OP because of team games, it's OP because it's OP. Which is because it defies set rules required to maintain balance.

Same cost as a recon plane. None of the drawbacks. Rather, NO drawbacks. It doesn't even alert you on the mini map like a plane does. It's not OP because of team games, it's OP because it's OP. Which is because it defies set rules required to maintain balance.

Then let's start with Royal Arty, because that one flares the entire map.

Then let's start with Royal Arty, because that one flares the entire map.

Not true, just the frontline zone. Do not mislead people.

Not true, just the frontline zone. Do not mislead people.

So um, just half the map?

Not true, just the frontline zone. Do not mislead people.

Jesus christ.

Then let's start with Royal Arty, because that one flares the entire map.

I agree it needs changed but arty regiment flares is more expensive and more expansive but less versatile. It's arguably more acceptable because it's more predictable and less flexible.

It can't (or rather is extremely unlikely) to be combined with an off map because it's more of an Intel recon than a spotting recon (if that makes sense)

You see a lot but not necessarily what you want to see with Brit recon flares where it's the opposite for spec ops flares (which is why they are so problematic)
You see exactly what you want and the enemy can't do anything about it, hell they might not even know its happening
Meanwhile Brit flares covering such a large area are more likely to be noticed AND offer less utility.
. If any of that makes sense

Yeah the spec ops flares are cheesier imo but it doesn't really matter, both should be changed

If the Brit one still needs to involve territory for themes sake, make it a significant temporary buff to units vision in frontline territory

How about a sound cue a few seconds before the flares are utilized and fired, alongside the visual cue? Wouldn't that nerf them?

Flares are OK, but opponent should be warned somehow (sound, red circle on minimap or something).

The Flares already have a distinctive sound of "explosion" when it is deployed. I just wonder if units have a voice line line when you use Stuka bomb dive.

It has everything such ability should have: an targetable area of use, a smaller but uncounterable area of view. It is a tactical ability which emphasis all the tactical aspect of the game.

Why would it be a problem?

The Flares already have a distinctive sound of "explosion" when it is deployed. I just wonder if units have a voice line line when you use Stuka bomb dive.

It has everything such ability should have: an targetable area of use, a smaller but uncounterable area of view. It is a tactical ability which emphasis all the tactical aspect of the game.

Why would it be a problem?

Nothing says tactical like pop anywhere uncounterable, unseen recon. Maybe a return of the "tactical" irht is on order...

Funny to see people defending an OP ability like -Yeah but there is a visual effect, you can see it!

Taking intel to planify a game plan and see what is coming/targeting properly your arty seems more in the spirit of the game than anything else.

You can blame whatever you want but the more you decide to nerf every utility capabilities the more the game will turn into a idiotic blob contest.

The only reason this post is here is because it is something only OKW has, on the other side the widely use Royal arty and its flares didn't get a similar post for some reason.

Taking intel to planify a game plan and see what is coming/targeting properly your arty seems more in the spirit of the game than anything else.

You can blame whatever you want but the more you decide to nerf every utility capabilities the more the game will turn into a idiotic blob contest.

The only reason this post is here is because it is something only OKW has, on the other side the widely use Royal arty and its flares didn't get a similar post for some reason.

Abilities that need some thought about input and allow counterplay force players to think ahead and make an actual plan for the offensive. In contrast, the spec ops flare just require the click of a button and a click on usually a very obvious area of the map. I don't see how this option is superior to the first one.
People have been mentioning royal arty flares along the whole thread, and a quick search would show you that royal arty flares got posted about in march as well.

I think one reason why OKW flares are more complained about is because they synergize so well with rocket artillery which both Axis faction can build. Put it in the backline and you can hit anything you want.
The royal arty ones are bad too, but you usually can't hit the most vulnerable squads (reinforcing at FRPs etc). And you need to call it in for your Soviet team mate, it does not help much for other UKF or USF players. You can go for the double combo of flares and the concentrated barrage, but that's 160 munitions.

Both abilities are bad, but I also think that the OKW one is way more cheesy.

I'd say heartingly that the flares need a fix in the next patch, as it is way too common spotting them in any 2on2 games. It is just a cheesy one click ability that removes so much play from the game - it counters everything as information is the key to win the game. Especially in narrow maps like rails and metal they reveal too much and out of nowhere. Make them at least be shot from an unit, volks or leig so that it needs a bit more of play.

Also yeah, they do tend to bug out visually - sometimes they show, sometimes they don't and sometimes that glare effect is enough to brighten up most of Britain at night at once.

I'd say heartingly that the flares need a fix in the next patch, as it is way too common spotting them in any 2on2 games. It is just a cheesy one click ability that removes so much play from the game - it counters everything as information is the key to win the game. Especially in narrow maps like rails and metal they reveal too much and out of nowhere. Make them at least be shot from an unit, volks or leig.

Also yeah, they do tend to bug out visually - sometimes they show, sometimes they don't and sometimes that glare effect is enough to brighten up most of Britain at night at once.

it is easy counterable...just move your units out of the flares areas. not this hard

Abilities that need some thought about input and allow counterplay force players to think ahead and make an actual plan for the offensive. In contrast, the spec ops flare just require the click of a button and a click on usually a very obvious area of the map. I don't see how this option is superior to the first one.
People have been mentioning royal arty flares along the whole thread, and a quick search would show you that royal arty flares got posted about in march as well.

I think one reason why OKW flares are more complained about is because they synergize so well with rocket artillery which both Axis faction can build. Put it in the backline and you can hit anything you want.
The royal arty ones are bad too, but you usually can't hit the most vulnerable squads (reinforcing at FRPs etc). And you need to call it in for your Soviet team mate, it does not help much for other UKF or USF players. You can go for the double combo of flares and the concentrated barrage, but that's 160 munitions.

Both abilities are bad, but I also think that the OKW one is way more cheesy.

The OKW doesn't have any scout units or other capabilities to scout (no sniper/222/T-70/M-20 and the stuka smoke strafe isn't a proper reco). The IR-HT got nerfed which was needed but is still a big impact on a core unit of the OKW, if you see more flares it is because that's the only remaining option for the OKW and the whole axis side.

Those flares are critical for the OKW and that's why they are criticizes. To counter the arty dominance of the Allies, flares are needed. To use properly the panzerwerfer, you need those flares. Both axis rocket arty are "precise strike" and not "wiping area machine".

Plus most of the "meta" Ostheer commander doesn't have reco plane, nerfing flares will just make the need of Elephant+Scope even more present.

So instead of crying out an OP ability which lasted for a decade (exactly like the T-70 is to the SU) and which is part of every teamgames tactics, try to give them first other viable options and see if it remain a must-have ability.

it is easy counterable...just move your units out of the flares areas. not this hard

i did not say it is not counterable. Nevermind, knowing how many units are there and where they are moving to is already golden info to any good player. Forcing a player to move is not a counter either - it is winning an engagement with just some muni cost. Also, see comment about flare visuals often bugging out.

Honestly the planes and flare should be made more specific how they function. Planes should reveal more area but can be shot down. Flares cant be shot but area they reveal should be very limited.

it is easy counterable...just move your units out of the flares areas. not this hard

So for as low as 60 munitions cost; because the only way to counter flares is to move units out, your opponent can force you to abandon your whole frontline and defensive positions on a map like rails and metal. And you think this is ok? Are u ok?