T-34 Ram

Ram without off map make non sense.

A doctrinal ram could be combined with off map. Point here is that then that the ram+off map combo could be better designed.

And Ram make sense in many cases even without off map. At some point the design of the ability was meant as a last resort on unit that has taken damage and will probably not survive anyway.

Better replace for smoke or speed. Or non doc T34/76->85 upgrade option.

Well there are many options but an upgrade is simply too powerful. One would have both an early access to medium and the option to improve it once he has enough resources.

And Ram make sense in many cases even without off map. At some point the design of the ability was meant as a last resort on unit that has taken damage and will probably not survive anyway.

This is just bad gamedesign from days when t-34 cost was 60 fuel and it was trash on wheels. Game always reward player for saving his units alive. We are not in SC2 with zergs and giblings. How this ability show this side of gamedesign? Now many things were changed and better get rid off from this old habbits. Like was made with flare mines on every single infantry unit for SU and cap points for almost every SU armor.

My ideas to replace RAM and cap point:

1. Passive ability that scales with every new t-34 you have. It encourage player not only save t-34, but also build them more. That also reflect side of T-34 as numerous vehicle. Power in numbers you can call.
2. HVAP rounds - low range, higher pen. Could be timed ability or mode like sherman have (you pay for each shell that will be shot). It reflect side that HVAP rounds were rare and have low effective distance of fire in reality.
3. Smoke like churchill have.
4. Repair critical engine damage.

This is just bad gamedesign from days when t-34 cost was 60 fuel and it was trash on wheels. Game always reward player for saving his units alive. We are not in SC2 with zergs and giblings. How this ability show this side of gamedesign? Now many things were changed and better get rid off from this old habbits. Like was made with flare mines on every single infantry unit for SU and cap points for almost every SU armor.

I am simply point out that raming with a T-34/76 that is about to die makes sense.


Ram

Currently, ram is being used as a crowd control measure to disable other vehicles. The intent isn’t for a full health T34 to ram other vehicles; instead, ram should be used when the T34 is near death to highlight its usage as a last resort type ability.

I am simply point out that raming with a T-34/76 that is about to die makes sense.

Of course make sense. We could make sense for any suicidal ability in game.

Penals "Redemption" - use satchel to detonate themselves with around enemies. Why not? When i have couple models such ability could work. We need more such cool abilities in-game. We even could get suicidal bus tactic.

Zis-gun "Death in glory" - crew detonate HE shells to destroy their gun and all enemies around.

Conscripts "One for all" - use hand granade to detonate themselves. With Oora will be good synergy to kill blobs.

Ability should reward players for saving his units alive. Ram could be used as Last resort tool only if it can be activated on low HP, but when it uses with full health it's just stupid.

Another topic "remove heavy Axis tanks counter" ?

Axis tanks have smoke/blitz = free escape. Use it.

never seen Blitz/ smoke from jp4, jagdtiger, ...you?

Right now Ram is just clear message, especially when you have such off-maps like AT artillery from NKVD and Defensive doc, rocket strafe and il2-bombs (ptabs doc so rare that almost never used in small game modes). It's gimmick. IF you lack of micro just use Ram+offmap to delete enemy armor. I myself used such tactic - build 2-3 t-34, call-in AT artillery and then rammed all enemy armor. Looks fun. Valuable tactic - yes. Skillfull tactic - not. But we also had many fun things in past like B4 skillshots, invisible democharges, ptabs that killed all forms of life in area. Players should fight one against another by skill, not some gimmick tricks.

Of course make sense. We could make sense for any suicidal ability in game.

Penals "Redemption" - use satchel to detonate themselves with around enemies. Why not? When i have couple models such ability could work. We need more such cool abilities in-game. We even could get suicidal bus tactic.

Zis-gun "Death in glory" - crew detonate HE shells to destroy their gun and all enemies around.

Conscripts "One for all" - use hand granade to detonate themselves. With Oora will be good synergy to kill blobs.

Ability should reward players for saving his units alive. Ram could be used as Last resort tool only if it can be activated on low HP, but when it uses with full health it's just stupid.

You are borderline trolling in your own thread and that is non constructive.

As I pointed out to you according to people who designed the ability in the first place it is meant to a "last resort ability", a way of getting more of vehicles that is about to die. If you want to argue/troll more about this you should argue it with game developers and not me.

And maybe one should return to that design and make ram available only after the unit is lower than HP threshold.

You are borderline trolling and that non constructive.

As I pointed out to you according to people who designed the ability in the first place it is meant to a "last resort ability", away of getting more of vehicles that is about to die. If you want to argue more about this you should argue it with game developers and not me.

You are right, but also those peoples designed Ram in very differnt way - it always destroy enemy gun and disable engine. Should we returned to old days? Community make changes to current state of Ram. And community could also can change it. We have enough units which was completely reworked - SU-76 free barrages and super ROF were reworked, SU-85 super ROF was reworked, penals were reworked, conscripts were reworked to proper mainline infantry, maxims were reworkde from mainline infantry to suuport tool and e.t.c

You are right, but also those peoples designed Ram in very differnt way - it always destroy enemy gun and disable engine. Should we returned to old days? Community make changes to current state of Ram. And community could also can change it. We have enough units which was completely reworked - SU-76 free barrages and super ROF were reworked, SU-85 super ROF was reworked, penals were reworked, conscripts were reworked to proper mainline infantry, maxims were reworkde from mainline infantry to suuport tool and e.t.c

Not really:
"Ram

Currently, ram is being used as a crowd control measure to disable other vehicles. The intent isn’t for a full health T34 to ram other vehicles; instead, ram should be used when the T34 is near death to highlight its usage as a last resort type ability.
No longer causes instant main gun destroyed critical
Now has a chance to cause one of the follow criticals to occur: light engine damage, heavy engine damage, immobilization, or main gun destroyed. The chance is weighed such that light engine damage has the highest occurrence where main gun destroyed has the lowest."

After that Ram stayed unchanged for years. Until a "bug" change:
"Fixed an issue where the T-34 Ram ability would stun on deflection, but not on penetration."
(which was no actually a bug since penetration caused engine damage in most cases)


Now the combination of stun and engine on penetration and introduction of powerful off maps made
Ram+off map combo easier to pull and changed the ability from a "last resort ability" to a "full health"+off map combo.

Now the combination of stun and engine on penetration and introduction of powerful off maps made
Ram+off map combo easier to pull and changed the ability from a "last resort ability" to a "full health"+off map combo.

What about i said earlier - Ram not Last resort tool. Just imagine if for ram T-34 must have 25% or below health, would be it last resort ability -yes. Would be usefull - not, very tight restrictions for usage. I completely understand initial logic and design when game started. In those days t-34 used only for ramming and crushing enemy infantry. It could be build in horde of 5-6 tanks due low pop-cap and low cost, especially with windustry doctrine. Now it was bring close to normall unit. And it should also get rid off this legacy of "good, old days".

Last resort abilities for game that from every corner cry to you "You MUST keep you units alive, don't throw them away", just mistake. There is no any unit in game that have similar ability (penals passive, more defensive than offensive) and there is no make sense keep this rudiment alive. I don't think if Ram and cap point were removed from T-34 SU lost their potential to fight against axis armor. Oldschool docs like guard motor, shock rifle always works. Su-85 still good. ISU-152 still good. T-85 still good. Even Lendlease sherman is good with HVAP rounds.

What about i said earlier - Ram not Last resort tool. Just imagine if for ram T-34 must have 25% or below health, would be it last resort ability -yes. Would be usefull - not, very tight restrictions for usage. I completely understand initial logic and design when game started. In those days t-34 used only for ramming and crushing enemy infantry. It could be build in horde of 5-6 tanks due low pop-cap and low cost, especially with windustry doctrine. Now it was bring close to normall unit. And it should also get rid off this legacy of "good, old days".

Last resort abilities for game that from every corner cry to you "You MUST keep you units alive, don't throw them away", just mistake. There is no any unit in game that have similar ability (penals passive, more defensive than offensive) and there is no make sense keep this rudiment alive. I don't think if Ram and cap point were removed from T-34 SU lost their potential to fight against axis armor. Oldschool docs like guard motor, shock rifle always works. Su-85 still good. ISU-152 still good. T-85 still good. Even Lendlease sherman is good with HVAP rounds.

I agree, ram + ML-20 was the only countermeasure for the Elephant at the start of the game, it was fixed a long time ago and there is no real need for a ram if you want to slow down the tank for this there are mines or AT grenades, this works well. The T-34 is now not needed in the game as a tank, it is an expensive suicide ability right now. I want to change the kamikaze ability for utility to the level of Sherman and Cromwell.

Jagd and Elefant have the longest range, massive damage and great frontal armour/hp (penetration is always). Stock tank destroyers can't counter them since they will die in a couple of shots. On most maps they are un-counterable. Maps where you can send in tanks to flank it are Steppes, Whiteball, and similar open maps. If you want to field and Elefant and you know your enemy has the combo, it's your decision. Besides, that combo hasn't got 100% success rate. You spend a ton of munitions and one good tank to kill a heavy tank. That's a trade.

People seem to not understand that Elefant and Jagd are high risk (due to high cost) and high reward units. They can easily put to shame and tank there is. If you're a capable player and you can manage it, you don't have to worry about T34 ramming it since a good player will keep it in the last line. Behind shrecks and MGs and other tanks.
And of course, the critical is dictated by random function.
It's a good combo that should be left as it is. It's seldom used and hard to pull off and it's not 100% H-TD death.

If anything Ram almost requires you to sacrifice a perfectly good tank to make good use of it.

Didn't you read though!?! It's OP when combined with a 200mu strike and proper AT!

People seem to not understand that Elefant and Jagd are high risk (due to high cost) and high reward units. They can easily put to shame and tank there is. If you're a capable player and you can manage it, you don't have to worry about T34 ramming it since a good player will keep it in the last line. Behind shrecks and MGs and other tanks.
And of course, the critical is dictated by random function.
It's a good combo that should be left as it is. It's seldom used and hard to pull off and it's not 100% H-TD death.

You are right, but better beat such combo by skill, not two click ability. You can field your own ISU-152 and bleed enemy infantry to hell. You can build ML-20 or B4 (i agree that ISU-152 and elef should not have stuka and il-2 bombs). You can build 2-3 shermans, use smoke grenades and kill them, even without flanking (hvap rounds very potent tool). Zis-walls + mark target.

T-34 ram + off-map the most lazy, the most easy to use method. Fun - yes. Skillfull - not. It's like old democharges (even with it high cost), who need MG or map control when you can build invisible demo to kill enemy infantry and tanks. Fun -yes. Skillfull - not. Who need to proper counters when all you need is couple of doctrines and ramming tanks. How high skill need to be to use AT artillery from NKVD or Def doc and ramming T-34?

You can build ML-20 or B4

Actually, you can't, because of offmaps. Its one of the intended methods, but its not viable because of how doctrines are built.
Arguably, same applies to ISU.

Jagd and Elefant have the longest range, massive damage and great frontal armour/hp (penetration is always). Stock tank destroyers can't counter them since they will die in a couple of shots...

Can we stop making claims that untrue?
Elefant /JT/ISU-152/KV-2 indirect all have the same range of 70.

Elephnat and JT need 3 shots that actually hit to do +640 damage.

Ram could be locked inside specific docs like nkvd or def doc, if someone want to use such combo. Maybe these docs become more popular. But for skill and gameplay sake - get rid off Ram. Replace it by another good ability. Not suicidal.

Just put the il-2 strikes only in weaker commanders so that having the ability to wombo combo is limited to not having heavy Armour or elite infantry.
I generally put mines in and around my slow expensive TD and havnt been ram combod since but I admit it's much much easier to change the ability than do literally anything about it.

What about i said earlier - Ram not Last resort tool.

According to the patch notes RAM was designed as a "last resort tool" and have little changes for years PLS move on.

Just imagine if for ram T-34 must have 25% or below health, would be it last resort ability -yes. Would be usefull - not, very tight restrictions for usage. I completely understand initial logic and design when game started. In those days t-34 used only for ramming and crushing enemy infantry. It could be build in horde of 5-6 tanks due low pop-cap and low cost, especially with windustry doctrine. Now it was bring close to normall unit. And it should also get rid off this legacy of "good, old days".

There is no "legacy of good old days. I have simply pointed when the ability that cause little problem become problematic.

It was a combination of adding stun on penetration (2017 DECEMBER patch) and new more powerful off map for soviet.

Last resort abilities for game that from every corner cry to you "You MUST keep you units alive, don't throw them away", just mistake.

No they are not since it was meant to be used by unit that would die anyway.

There is no any unit in game that have similar ability (penals passive, more defensive than offensive) and there is no make sense keep this rudiment alive. I don't think if Ram and cap point were removed from T-34 SU lost their potential to fight against axis armor. Oldschool docs like guard motor, shock rifle always works. Su-85 still good. ISU-152 still good. T-85 still good. Even Lendlease sherman is good with HVAP rounds.

If you read what I have actually posted it is not to keep "ram" and "cap" for T-34/76.