Yea, it is still a bit underpowered in my view. While it is 'cheap' in manpower compared to a panther, it costs nearly the same amount of fuel per unit.
In a vacuum, you might end up fighting a pair of Panthers with your pair of T-34s (while you save up fuel for the next pair...)and marked target/guards support is essential.
This means that your manpower savings isn't that great of an advantage because you have to store at least 120 munitions for a successful engagement.
The post 'Turning Point' T-34/85
18 Nov 2013, 04:32 AM
#21
Posts: 1571
18 Nov 2013, 11:46 AM
#22
Posts: 978
For the cost, the T-34/85 is still under-powered. For being a 4 cp doctrinal tank call in, it's sad that it just competes with a PIV. It should be on par with the panther in my opinion.Because the Panther shouldn´t counter tanks, right? Seriously, that´s the only thing the Panther can do atm. Take away it´s ability to defeat T-34/85s reliably and it´s utterly useless. Not to mention a T-34/85 being as strong as a Panther is totally gaga to begin with. Panther has more armour, a much better gun and was specifically designed to defeat T-34s.
Atm. lone Panthers actually can be beaten by the call in. Either by ramming it from the sides/rear and the other one finishing it off. Or by simply using mark target and getting through it´s frontal armor, or simply by flanking with one of the T-34s.
20 Nov 2013, 23:55 PM
#23
Posts: 525
He had enough fuel to vet his panzers? you have other problems then like giving your opponent way to much fuel.
I have a more agressive style of play,had cut off his fuel every time I had the chance...
Also,vetting two panzers cost 50 fuel so I don't think it's the end of the world for the Ostheer player...
And I actually won that game,his pay2win Tiger Ace came when he had just 10 VP remaining
)
21 Nov 2013, 02:26 AM
#24
Posts: 337
For the cost, the T-34/85 is still under-powered. For being a 4 cp doctrinal tank call in, it's sad that it just competes with a PIV. It should be on par with the panther in my opinion.
Are you insane? If anything, the T34-85 is a bit OVER-powered now after the huge buff. They cost about the same as a P4 but are superior is every aspect as well as have zero teching cost. It's ridiculously cost effective.
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23 Nov 2013, 09:20 AM
#25
Posts: 344
Not to mention a T-34/85 being as strong as a Panther is totally gaga to begin with. Panther has more armour, a much better gun and was specifically designed to defeat T-34s.
And T-34 in reality had much better armor then Pz IV, because it was sloped. This is why Germans copied this idea and their next tank - Panther had sloped armor too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour
T-34 47 mm/60° = 94 mm frontal armor
Pz IV 85 mm/12° = 86,9 mm frontal armor
But in CoH2:
T-34 115 armor
T-34/85 124 armor
Pz IV 160 armor
I know it's an arcade game, but this is bullshit for me. Apparently in Relic nobody knows how sloped armor work.
26 Nov 2013, 16:16 PM
#26
Posts: 1163
Been playing with guards motor using only T1, quite effective.
2 cons, 2 penals, flame M3, guards.. Then whatever else until you can spam 34/85s.
Once the tanks come out its really strong, they are a great tank vs T3 and against inf, mark target lets you easily take on heavies (with micro), and self repair too.
Only weakness is making it to 4 CPs without xp's from buildings helping you along. Sometimes get forced off the field, or lose a lot of manpower to an ostwind.
But when you do hit 4 CP, because you have spent no fuel, you have 2 tanks vs one P4.
2 cons, 2 penals, flame M3, guards.. Then whatever else until you can spam 34/85s.
Once the tanks come out its really strong, they are a great tank vs T3 and against inf, mark target lets you easily take on heavies (with micro), and self repair too.
Only weakness is making it to 4 CPs without xp's from buildings helping you along. Sometimes get forced off the field, or lose a lot of manpower to an ostwind.
But when you do hit 4 CP, because you have spent no fuel, you have 2 tanks vs one P4.
29 Nov 2013, 11:56 AM
#27
Posts: 294
They can take on Panzer IVs now. I had one fight between 2 T-34/85s and 2 Panzer IVs (one vet1) today. I had to retreat both Panzer IVs, as the first P4 went down to 10% health pretty quickly. The other Panzer IV could escape with about half health. One T-34/85 was left with full health, the other one with about 10% health. My 2nd Panzer IV arrived 3 seconds later at this combat though, so that both T-34/85 could focus on the first P4 and get out 1 shot more.
I think they are fine now. The infantry shooting capabilities before were too much. Now it´s decent anti tank. More AT power isn´t needed for the vehicle. People shouldn´t expect to get a Panther counter with this unit. After all the Panther is/ should be the hard counter to tanks.
yeah the T34-85 can at least now be somewhat useful, There still isn't that much point in it as far as being a tactical unit ( it wont help you if your not already winning).
But at least its a bit more fun to use.
To Blackart, Yeah its truly frustrating how relic make no attempt to represent these tanks in any realistic way, T34-76 should be on par with PzKpfw IV with KwK40 and its price should reflect that, Its to weak and to cheap.
At normal combat ranges the T34 had the Armour advantage and the PIV had the gun, both could penetrate each others Armour. I've tried to chase down a half health PIV with a T-34 and had it killed while shooting at PIV's rear armour and taking front armour shots.
I would love to see soviets with a hard counter to the panther. In VP 1v1 games it delivers so much damage to the soviet army before its countered that your bled dry even if you manage to kill it, I would love to see the KV-85 as a buildable unit, Tier 4 would be of some use again then.
29 Nov 2013, 16:51 PM
#28
Posts: 978
Actually Panzer IV G, H and J were superior to the T-34/76 and comparable to the T-34/85. The 80mm front hull armor of the Panzer IV could only be penetrated at 400m by the 76mm. The T-34 could be penetrated by the 75mm/L48 at ranges up to 1100m. More than a slight advantage. T-34/85 and Panzer IV could knock each other out with one shot.
To Blackart, Yeah its truly frustrating how relic make no attempt to represent these tanks in any realistic way, T34-76 should be on par with PzKpfw IV with KwK40 and its price should reflect that, Its to weak and to cheap.
At normal combat ranges the T34 had the Armour advantage and the PIV had the gun, both could penetrate each others Armour.
As for the game: T-34/85 are fine now, although I don´t think they are worth blocking a doctrinal slot. The thing was the representative tank of the Soviet army in 1944/45 and should be non-doctrinal.
30 Nov 2013, 20:35 PM
#29
Posts: 307
I would love to see soviets with a hard counter to the panther. In VP 1v1 games it delivers so much damage to the soviet army before its countered that your bled dry even if you manage to kill it, I would love to see the KV-85 as a buildable unit, Tier 4 would be of some use again then.
T4 is a lot more useful than T3.
2 SU-85+button+at nade+mark the target - any tank goes down, any tank...
And Katyusha is a good way to fight off pgrens with shreks.
And why would you go T3 if you already get T34-85 with this doctrine?
Vae Victis!
30 Nov 2013, 23:33 PM
#30
Posts: 337
T4 is a lot more useful than T3.
2 SU-85+button+at nade+mark the target - any tank goes down, any tank...
And Katyusha is a good way to fight off pgrens with shreks.
And why would you go T3 if you already get T34-85 with this doctrine?
When I go guard motor, I don't build ANY buildings. This maximizes the free tech of T34-85s. You save a TON of MP/Fuel and just spit out 4 tanks when you hit 4CP.
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1 Dec 2013, 12:03 PM
#31
Posts: 307
I've tried this last night but it didn't exactly work. It just seems impossible to reach 4 cp without any support weapons. My enemy had a shit load of bunkers and I was just forced into T4 so I could Katyusha his ass like there is no tomorrow.
Vae Victis!
2 Dec 2013, 17:20 PM
#32
Posts: 258
I don't tech with Guards Motor either. I build 4 conscripts then 2-3 guards and heavy mortar and 2 munition caches to have enough munitions to throw guard grenades in every engagement. Building caches also gives additional XP to get to 4cp faster.
2 Dec 2013, 18:17 PM
#33
Posts: 2425
Permanently Banned
When I go guard motor, I don't build ANY buildings. This maximizes the free tech of T34-85s. You save a TON of MP/Fuel and just spit out 4 tanks when you hit 4CP.
Gotta try this.
7 Dec 2013, 16:38 PM
#34
Posts: 1163
Its definatley really powerful, you just have to be able to hold on till 4 CP.
Penals are a big help for the AI, and guards.
Ive been pinned right back into my base before, then had my 2 85s come out and chase and destory whatever armour they had.
Due to their tecking costs, you will always outnumber their initial tanks.. mark target and self repair just make it easier.
Penals are a big help for the AI, and guards.
Ive been pinned right back into my base before, then had my 2 85s come out and chase and destory whatever armour they had.
Due to their tecking costs, you will always outnumber their initial tanks.. mark target and self repair just make it easier.
10 Dec 2013, 14:55 PM
#35
Posts: 971
While it is true that T34/85 may be a bit underperforming for its price, its also true that the other commander abilities combined have a great synergy with them.
Guards, Marking Target and Crew repairs makes two T34/85 VERY powerful if well played. And don't forget that you can also ram if your 85 is in a dire position and you are going to lose it anyway.
Personally it is one of my favourite commanders and I don't think it should be buffed.
Guards, Marking Target and Crew repairs makes two T34/85 VERY powerful if well played. And don't forget that you can also ram if your 85 is in a dire position and you are going to lose it anyway.
Personally it is one of my favourite commanders and I don't think it should be buffed.
18 Dec 2013, 19:01 PM
#36
Posts: 32
And T-34 in reality had much better armor then Pz IV, because it was sloped. This is why Germans copied this idea and their next tank - Panther had sloped armor too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloped_armour
T-34 47 mm/60° = 94 mm frontal armor
Pz IV 85 mm/12° = 86,9 mm frontal armor
But in CoH2:
T-34 115 armor
T-34/85 124 armor
Pz IV 160 armor
I know it's an arcade game, but this is bullshit for me. Apparently in Relic nobody knows how sloped armor work.
You may want to rethink just how effective sloped armor is/was. Yes, it can help in deflecting lower velocity/smaller rounds that were prevalently used in 1941/1942, but the idea going forward was "overmatching". You could fire a larger round at approximately two times the thickness of the armor and mostly negate the effects of sloped armor. This is why the 88mm German gun was so effective at long distances. Most tanks could simply not employ thicknesses to withstand the weapon due to resource usage, having to design larger engines, reliability vs weight, etc.
19 Dec 2013, 00:11 AM
#37
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
I like the changes made to the t-34/85.
17 Jan 2014, 19:37 PM
#38
Posts: 1571
After a lot more experience, I find the new T-34/85 to be not buffed enough even with marked target. When playing as soviet Guards motor, it is still essential to have a a pair of Zis nearby.
Usually one can get 2 x t-34/85 but not the 4 x T-34/85 that is needed to tackle on more than one panthers and tigers.
I would personally prefer if it was raised in fuel cost and buffed to the SU-85's gun but with a range cut. So 40 range, 170 pen, 160 damage. ROF is fine.
The increase in fuel cost could be close to the Panther's for each tank. So same MP, 290 fuel.
Usually one can get 2 x t-34/85 but not the 4 x T-34/85 that is needed to tackle on more than one panthers and tigers.
I would personally prefer if it was raised in fuel cost and buffed to the SU-85's gun but with a range cut. So 40 range, 170 pen, 160 damage. ROF is fine.
The increase in fuel cost could be close to the Panther's for each tank. So same MP, 290 fuel.
23 Jan 2014, 15:48 PM
#39
Posts: 294
They can take on Panzer IVs now. I had one fight between 2 T-34/85s and 2 Panzer IVs (one vet1) today. I had to retreat both Panzer IVs, as the first P4 went down to 10% health pretty quickly. The other Panzer IV could escape with about half health. One T-34/85 was left with full health, the other one with about 10% health. My 2nd Panzer IV arrived 3 seconds later at this combat though, so that both T-34/85 could focus on the first P4 and get out 1 shot more.
I think they are fine now. The infantry shooting capabilities before were too much. Now it´s decent anti tank. More AT power isn´t needed for the vehicle. People shouldn´t expect to get a Panther counter with this unit. After all the Panther is/ should be the hard counter to tanks.
I think two T34-85's should be able to take on a Panther like their historical counterparts, not for this reason alone, but because it makes the investment make sense, T34-85 should also be a hard counter against tanks also, it shouldn't have to flank a Panthers because although historically in some instances it may have had to there would have been 15 of them so it was viable given Axis other At capability. Still needs a bit of a firepower upgrade against tanks, especially given its nerf against inf.
25 Jan 2014, 20:45 PM
#40
Posts: 231
I like going T1-Con-Sniper-Con-Con-Hospital-Guards-Guards-T34/85s. It gives you an answer to almost every stage of the game, and is pretty solid 1v1 if you don't lose your sniper too early or get unlucky with a squad wipe.
Haven't tried it in team games, might be less effective due to the higher occurrence of Panthers/ multiple Tigers.
Haven't tried it in team games, might be less effective due to the higher occurrence of Panthers/ multiple Tigers.
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