US Pak Howitzer Is Out Of Control

Well if it does than it's good right? Since it is easy to lose too! One panzerwerfer barrage wipes this unit, even a single vet0 lmg gren can decrew it. It is a crutch unit because US suffers against and has no similar unit to:

• Panzerwerfer : US literally does not have any tanks that can push deep into enemy territory and kill them. Nor do they have any anti blob non doc.
  
• Sniper : Same as above but they are countered easily by M20, but M20 sucks against OST.
  
• All OST tanks med to heavy can easily decrew it and have good AI except panther but even the panther can push and kill them without even bothering to get killed since Jackson and M1 At bounce on its frontal armor.
  

It is easy to play with and rewards a lot yes. But it is your fault if you let it get past vet2.

1. Thankfully, the Pwerfer, like all rocket arti (besides the perfectly balanced stuka zu fuss, and arguably Calliope) needs to be essentially hugging the front line to work consistently. IE if you are consistently losing pack howitzers to them, you have them way too goddamn close.
2. There's a lot to unpack here, but if you are getting snipers in response to pack howies, you're using snipers wrong. If you're using snipers successfully to counter any sort of indirect, you're opponent is just dumb. if you double teched for pack howies and m20s, and it isn't in the late game, I pity any allies you might be playing with.
3. Imagine mentioning diving with armor being ineffective, while literally 2 sentences later mentioning that its effective. except one is vs expensive one hit killed rocket artillery, and the other vs recrewable team weapons. Since you went captain, you have this magical thing called an AT gun, which makes it excessively risky to dive a p4, or something, for a team weapon that is easily recrewed, especially with the ost player knowing a jackson isn't far behind their first tank. Want to know what happens when I lose a pack howitzer? I say "oh no!" immediately recrew it, and send it to be almost instantly replenished by my forward ambulance. Don't need veterancy if vet 0 suffices.

So?
While i think both terms are similar but not necessarily equal i said:

"I would say Pak Howie was a badly implemented units from it's conception."

Implementation is not equal to design. You correctly affirm that the unit was designed with a different tech tree and faction. I'm just pointing out that in that design it was still a failed concept.

Regardless of how good or bad the Pak howitzer was the changes to USF made the problem worse.

The T0 mortar and the revamped tech USF made any issues with Pak howitzer worse.

Now it easy accessible and overlap making limiting the option for finding a good spot for it.

One has to rethink the place for this unit and for the mortar.

Regardless of how good or bad the Pak howitzer was the changes to USF made the problem worse.

The T0 mortar and the revamped tech USF made any issues with Pak howitzer worse.

Now it easy accessible and overlap making limiting the option for finding a good spot for it.

One has to rethink the place for this unit and for the mortar.

I disagree. I don't think it made the problem worst that what it already was, it just put it in highlight once we nerf ALL other mortars and light indirect fire units.

The place for the unit is already in it's name, the problem is a balance issue which could arise for giving USF non doctrinally heavy indirect barrage fire.

I disagree. I don't think it made the problem worst that what it already was, it just put it in highlight once we nerf ALL other mortars and light indirect fire units.

It is not only that. USF where designed to have powerful support weapon but limited access to them.
Now they retain their powerful support weapons with allot easier access to them. And now they can challenge Ostheer in their own game.

The place for the unit is already in it's name, the problem is a balance issue which could arise for giving USF non doctrinally heavy indirect barrage fire.

There is little reason why Pak howitzer should have different design than the Leig.

USF have little reason to have so many stock indirect fire option to begin with, a T0 Mortar, the Pak howitzer, Scott and Major barrage.

SOme of these option should simply be move to doctrines.

light indirect shouldn't snipe moving units
that was a terrible idea

light indirect shouldn't snipe moving units
that was a terrible idea

And it doesn't, because that's not how scatter works.

And it doesn't, because that's not how scatter works.

well it hits moving units notably more often than other indirects.

And it doesn't, because that's not how scatter works.

it hits really often compared to other ones
and it doesn't even have to be direct hit, still deals ton of damage
i am not saying it's broken tho, i have no idea

Scatter affects mostly static targets.

When it comes to moving targets time to impact is probably more important than scatter. And that is a combination of firing delays, projectile speed and trajectory.

well it hits moving units notably more often than other indirects.

Care to present clip/rep example or metric that would support that?

You need 3 model kills to decrew it and it has no retreat function.

i love your weak piece of pudding "arguements"

i love your weak piece of pudding "arguements"

These things are called facts, its something you just have to accept and deal with.

i love your weak piece of pudding "arguements"

Facts don't care about your feelings.

Its DPS is simply out of control. Changing it to be more like StuG E stats

I would also like to see leIG18 be more like StuG E


... ^^ for PaK-Howitzer it would be a nerf, for leIG18 maybe a buff xD

I think the pak howi is over performing as well and would like to see it adjusted to a barrsage only lite howitzer. Usf now has a mortar and the pak howi auto fire overlaps with that while also being superior to it.

With a barrage it would still be strong, but require more micro as well as offer counteplay

Howit is easily counterable. As a howi player I agree that they are strong but also easily decrewd and cost a lot of manpower to reinforce again. They are slow and any unit that gets in range of it and you're not aware the moment they are in range. Howi goodbye. Their manuverability and survavibility are offset by their damage. They are pretty strong anti infantry. In contrast... the OST werfer is mobile but has no autofire. However, it's barage is much more immidiate and dangerous. Most of the time, if you see one shell of howi, you move. Once the Werfer barage comes in it supresses and bleeds anything in the area.
Howi is good on the defense and horrible on the offense. Stuka and werfers are much better on the offense and have some defensive capability to close one sector or force retreat.
Also, going mortar and howi is just bad. Lots of pop. consumed, not worth it. The easiest way to counter pak is to move around. Literally. Pak has a narrow firing cone and in autofire, if it's targeting a "wrong" unit, most of the engagement, pack will just shift the cone around, doing nothing. Pak is good only with barrage on static targets or resource points. Seldom is autofire useful.

...Their manuverability and survavibility are offset by their damage.

Great lets increase the power level of the Leig to the same level for the same reason.

...
In contrast... the OST werfer is mobile but has no autofire....

Comparing a T2 unit with T4 unit that cost fuel is rather misleading.

The fact that the Howi have double the AOE of the IeG (far) is why this unit is too strong.

The fact that the Howi have double the AOE of the IeG (far) is why this unit is too strong.

Pack howi also has almost double distance scatter.

ISG literally shoots homing shells if you do not move.

ISG literally shoots homing shells if you do not move.

Care to present clip/rep example or metric that would support that?