US Pak Howitzer Is Out Of Control

90% of ppl think it's OP. (unless we count the fanboys)

So I wouldnt say ppl think it's fine. Only problem is one (or two idk) balance team members vetoed a nerf in the last balance patch.

10% of the time, I get just one LEIG and think its okay to mediocre. 90% of the time, I get 2 and wipe stuff. Its accuracy is way too good and its damage is mediocre so it is about as opposite from the pack howie as another type of indirect fire can get. I'd be okay with a little nerf to both of them.

That said, I'm not sure the pack howie is really "out of control." Seems like both axis factions have pretty good counters to it. In 3v3 or 4v4, I often see those abandoned where the owner gives up on recrewing them.

Leave it or rework it
Imo this unit should be something like mini lefh good versus teamweapons bad against blobs

everything should be good against blobs

Another noob l2p thread. USF does not have any counter blob like Stuka or Pzwerfer learn to embrace the asymmetry rather than cry about it.

USF is already dead for pros as seen in the 2v2 tourney.

Pack howi is just another one of those units that is low input for high reward, similar to mortar pit.

Pack howi is just another one of those units that is low input for high reward, similar to mortar pit.

howies aa range is pretty small, mortar pits is huge
you have to constantly take care of it, move it around
2 models dropped and your howie is done
(i know it has 6 crew members)

Another noob l2p thread. USF does not have any counter blob like Stuka or Pzwerfer learn to embrace the asymmetry rather than cry about it.

USF is already dead for pros as seen in the 2v2 tourney.

I mostly play Allies (Sov and USF). the Pack Howie is completely brainless, and a total crutch unit. I have literally watched it on multiple occasions fire one shot, and obliterate a squads health in cover, and then 2nd shot, wipe the squad as it retreats from the barrage area. Don't get me started on double pack howie, literally no time to react. Reducing its fat AOE and giving it its 6th man back or something wouldn't kill it. Its unfun to play against, and boring to play with. I assume its not as big of an issue in 2s and 1s, but I wouldn't know since I mostly play w groups of friends, but in 3s and 4s its complete cancer. even the Laser guided mortar 2:1 doesn't stand a chance. I want a tool I can use well against Ost sim city, and indirect spam, but not one that nullifies every kind of infantry play.

howies aa range is pretty small, mortar pits is huge


2 models dropped and your howie is done
(i know it has 6 crew members)

The Pack Howie has 80 auto attack range, the mortar pit has 85.

Furthermore the Pack Howie has 5 models and is decrewed when the third model drops, not the second.

so it has 5.. i edited it to 6 because i wasnt sure. and yes, that why i added it the part in brackets at all. i know that 3 models can drop before the weapon is decrewed

but i underestimated the range, isnt that small.

How many pak howis did we see the last two tournements? The answer is hardly any.

According to some crying here and on twitch pak howis are OP, well if it's OP where was it carrying noobs to victory in competative play. Where are the replays? It's the same phantom OP arguments that fell flat vs tommies.

Just because it's effective in some token situations that doesn't mean it has no counter or is over performing.

Whenever I a pak howi, they're undefended due to the nature of USF who has to move around the map constantly. I flank them with pGrens. Job done.

How many pak howis did we see the last two tournements? The answer is hardly any.

According to some crying here and on twitch pak howis are OP, well if it's OP where was it carrying noobs to victory in competative play. Where are the replays? It's the same phantom OP arguments that fell flat vs tommies.

Just because it's effective in some token situations that doesn't mean it has no counter or is over performing.

a "phantom argument" is probably still better than no argument. you sir have no argument

I mostly play Allies (Sov and USF). the Pack Howie is completely brainless, and a total crutch unit. I have literally watched it on multiple occasions fire one shot, and obliterate a squads health in cover, and then 2nd shot, wipe the squad as it retreats from the barrage area. Don't get me started on double pack howie, literally no time to react. Reducing its fat AOE and giving it its 6th man back or something wouldn't kill it. Its unfun to play against, and boring to play with. I assume its not as big of an issue in 2s and 1s, but I wouldn't know since I mostly play w groups of friends, but in 3s and 4s its complete cancer. even the Laser guided mortar 2:1 doesn't stand a chance. I want a tool I can use well against Ost sim city, and indirect spam, but not one that nullifies every kind of infantry play.

Well if it does than it's good right? Since it is easy to lose too! One panzerwerfer barrage wipes this unit, even a single vet0 lmg gren can decrew it. It is a crutch unit because US suffers against and has no similar unit to:

• Panzerwerfer : US literally does not have any tanks that can push deep into enemy territory and kill them. Nor do they have any anti blob non doc.
  
• Sniper : Same as above but they are countered easily by M20, but M20 sucks against OST.
  
• All OST tanks med to heavy can easily decrew it and have good AI except panther but even the panther can push and kill them without even bothering to get killed since Jackson and M1 At bounce on its frontal armor.
  

It is easy to play with and rewards a lot yes. But it is your fault if you let it get past vet2.

I would say Pak Howie was a badly implemented units from it's conception.

Drop the autofire and rework it to a barrage only unit or keep it as it is. And if not possible, nerf the autofire (rof) and buff the barrage.

It's like a sniper. Annoying and "imba" if it goes un-countered but dies and gets wiped by so many things.

I would say Pak Howie was a badly implemented units from it's conception.

Not sure if that is really fair, it was simply designed for a different tech tree and for a faction without a mortar.

Drop the autofire and rework it to a barrage only unit or keep it as it is. And if not possible, nerf the autofire (rof) and buff the barrage.

It's like a sniper. Annoying and "imba" if it goes un-countered but dies and gets wiped by so many things.

The barrage is already very powerful once "HEAT" rounds are unlock.

Not sure if that is really fair, it was simply designed for a different tech tree and for a faction without a mortar.


The barrage is already very powerful once "HEAT" rounds are unlock.

Design =/= implementation.

A faction without light (mortar) nor heavy non doctrinally (rocket fire) indirect fire which was supposed to be carry by Uber Rifles with weapon and grenade upgrades.
The unit was still bad cause it was trash till it got to vet 2, at that point the auto fire was replaced by HEAT rounds which made it broken. Not to mention accessibility nor survivability. The 2nd point made the vet trivial once you move out of 1v1.

The "HEAT" rounds are borderline broken. The issue is not the rounds, it's the barrage. It's still design around been an upgunned mortar alas Soviets 120mm.

Similar concept problem is the B4 or the Scott HE barrage.

B4 shells is strong as hell. The barrage i would say it's bad, not because it's UP but because it's highly RNG unreliable. It's either a tank destroyed or a miss.
Scott is supposed to be fulfilling this duo role of been a mini mobile Brummbar and been a mortar HT. The smoke on the move is fine but the HE barrage doesn't "work". You get the most of the unit in direct fire.


Devs designs things with a certain use in mind. That "VISION" of how things are supposed to go through and be used certainly crashes once it goes into the hands of the players.

Whenever I a pak howi, they're undefended due to the nature of USF who has to move around the map constantly. I flank them with pGrens. Job done.

Nah, pack howie OP, it teleports around the map and deletes everything. 0 counterplay.

Because obviously needing 3 kills to decrew on an extremely slow support weapon without retreat is too hard.

Design =/= implementation.
...

Design = conception

Design = conception

So?
While i think both terms are similar but not necessarily equal i said:

"I would say Pak Howie was a badly implemented units from it's conception."

Implementation is not equal to design. You correctly affirm that the unit was designed with a different tech tree and faction. I'm just pointing out that in that design it was still a failed concept.