CoH3 failure? New employee review

Completely agree with Osinyagov, however there is one thing we don't know - that is, what are SEGA expectations and forced guidelines regarding new games.

For all we know, it might've been SEGA that ordered relic to make DoW3 an "accessible" RTS, which previous relic RTS titles certainly were not if we consider casual player.

I'd love to see CoH3, but after DoW3 my faith is rapidly diminishing day by day and I am terrified that the only thing which follows CoH spirit might be, at the moment, extremely average Iron Harvest, both visually and mechanically.

Biggest problem is, big publishers do not seem to believe RTS games are future and CoH2/DoW3 probably did not met SEGA enormous expectations, so result might be AoE4 work as that's more mainstream IP.

Hard to be optimistic about CoH future with present day relic.

I saw today that Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition is the most popular strategy today, 40-50 thousand people play it every day. And it’s really cool, it shows that people want a quality AAA strategy. And I hope that Relic and Sega will see this, will do the work on the errors of CoH2 and will release a high-quality and interesting continuation of the Company of Heroes of the series.

they do the work on the errors into the mistakes and made Dow3 Kappa

I hope that CoH3 is in progress, but the chances are dwindling in my point of view.
I really hope there will be a successor because Iron Harvest....well i do not like this punk scenario.

Lets all go play Men of War Arena kappa

What we know for a fact - Sega Road To 2020 (first announced on 2017/5)
This month (May 13, 2020), Sega's new review of "Road To 2020" has no mention of any Relic game development nor foreseeable future in 2021.
Included Sega Europe studios except Relic;

source, page 13:
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/202003_4q_hosoku_20200525_final_e.pdf
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/202003_4q_presentation_20200513_final_e.pdf

CoH2.org discussion in 2017 | Sega's "Road to 2020" which included Relic/CoH IPs:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/61389/2020-coh-3-is-becoming-more-real-by-every-day

source, page 23 (SEGA “Road to 2020” business presentation):
https://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20170515_rt2020_e_final.pdf

Baseless speculation about CoH3?

We (fans & devs) are all guilty of some confirmation bias and not neutral observers.

I'm not a blind CoH fan and try to change my belief based on the current data/intel/interviews available.
All the studio secrecy is not working well for Relic as sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Going back to Relic nostalgia with the Homeworld release (1999), I remember the non-corporate side of Relic that would rather go bankrupt than release a bad game.
I remember a studio that worked on a Homeworld patch in their lunch break because the publisher did not pay enough for post launch support.
Fast forward to 2020, how many Relicans can play their own game?
Today Activision Blizzard RTS is a dead man walking and CoH + AoE is bigger than Relic.
As long the franchise is not owned by a greedy publisher there is hope for CoH3 even without Relic.

I want to be optimistic but Relic/Sega needs to throw us a bone that CoH development is making progress.

my biggest Fear is a command and conquer or starcraft clone with Rock Paper Scissor blob gameplay, no integration of environment whatsoever, cartoon graphics and Robot animations

and CoH2 probably did not met SEGA enormous expectations,

I dont have the exact numbers but didnt SEGA sell far over 1 million copies of CoH2?

I dont have the exact numbers but didnt SEGA sell far over 1 million copies of CoH2?

How much of it was on all the frequent -75-90% sales?
How much revenue in-game shop brought?
Number of copies sold is but a one variable and even that can not be accurately evaluated on our end.

There was a reddit thread on why DoW3 failed and one glassdoor review from a disgruntled employee pinned it on an executive producer.

Someone in the thread was able to pin it to a specific employee. That same employee worked on DoW3 and BF5. Both games weren't spectacular. Not sure if its causation or correlation but its definitely worth taking a double look at the next game this person works on. I definitely wouldn't preorder it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dawnofwar/comments/734ckp/i_know_what_happened_to_dawn_of_war_3/

New Relic employee review this month 24/7/20 (current employee):
https://www.glassdoor.ca/Reviews/Relic-Entertainment-Reviews-E533032.htm

Screenshot today:

Current Employee - Developer
Doesn't Recommend
I have been working at Relic Entertainment full-time

Pros
- fantastic benefits, like 100% basic dental, 100% chiropractors and what not - free organic fruits and vegetables, wide choice of beverages

Cons
This company used to be about great games, but now it's about great benefits and great socializing. Because of that, there are too many people in the company who shouldn't be here in the first place. What's worse, they consider you an enemy if you strive too hard to make a difference, because it doesn't make them look good. Because while you are here to make great games, they are here to socialize and enjoy massive benefits, bonuses, titles, with little or no responsibility. The company is filled with non-technical managers/producers who simply don't know their knowledge domain and don't care about the games in development - all they do is just moving around work items in the project management software, having endless useless meetings, constantly re-prioritizing and re-scheduling everyone's work, and just socializing. On the technical side, the company is stuck somewhere in 2000s, but they don't have a clue and they don't care. Some principal programmers are impressive while some are shockingly unintelligent, which they compensate by having "social skills". My personal impression is that currently the company's business is milking Sega and publishers and having fantastic benefits with little responsibility.

Advice to Management
I don't think they need it - they are doing just fine, in their own sense.

My personal impression is that currently the company's business is milking Sega and publishers and having fantastic benefits with little responsibility.

welcome to 2020. there isnt a single AAA company that gives 2 shits about costumer nor product, neither in gaming nor anywhere else

Honest man, this is an awful thread that reads even worse than any tabloid news. I think you should give up spreading these rumors based on vague internet posts.

It's not cool to posts baseless rumours and speculations like that.

Honest man, this is an awful thread that reads even worse than any tabloid news. I think you should give up spreading these rumors based on vague internet posts.

It's not cool to posts baseless rumours and speculations like that.

If we look at the recent successes of Relic - CoH2 single-player campaign after which a significant part of the audience left, the absolutely failed DoW3, all this information does not seem to be speculation and rumors, this is just an part explanation of the reasons for the studio's failures.

CoH2 single-player campaign after which a significant part of the audience left

Are you referring to butthurt russians who "left" the game despite never having it in the first place, because of ignorant "reviewer" who didn't even paid attention to what was happening on the screen and coming out of speakers and was regarded not only as a clown, but a whole circus ever since that "review"?

Are you referring to butthurt russians who "left" the game despite never having it in the first place, because of ignorant "reviewer" who didn't even paid attention to what was happening on the screen and coming out of speakers and was regarded not only as a clown, but a whole circus ever since that "review"?

Eh .. There are many people who did not like the single player campaign, not only the Russian community and let's be honest, the Russian community is huge in the series of the Company of Heroes, and many were disappointed in it after CoH2, Relic failed to satisfy this community. Take a look at Total War: Three Kingdoms, here's a great example of how the right approach leads to good sales and love. And even if we do not take the Russian community, I know many people from different countries who did not like the single company CoH2 and were very disappointed.

CoH2 single player campaign was poor:
- history and heroes
- elaboration and quality of the game
- frankly boring campaign

The Tiger Hunt is the only worthy mission from the whole game, but also made as cheap and simple as possible.

Eh .. There are many people who did not like the single player campaign, not only the Russian community and let's be honest, the Russian community is huge in the series of the Company of Heroes, and many were disappointed in it after CoH2, Relic failed to satisfy this community. Take a look at Total War: Three Kingdoms, here's a great example of how the right approach leads to good sales and love. And even if we do not take the Russian community, I know many people from different countries who did not like the single company CoH2 and were very disappointed.

CoH2 single player campaign was poor:
- history and heroes
- elaboration and quality of the game
- frankly boring campaign

The Tiger Hunt is the only worthy mission from the whole game, but also made as cheap and simple as possible.

CoH1 didn't really fared any better...
Its original campaign was basically Call of Duty 2, but from birds view.

RTS campaigns aren't really deep you know and WW2 campaigns are all about tropes.

If anything, CoH1 campaign was way too heroic and CoH2 one actually have shown some desperation on soviet side, which was actually a thing.

RTS campaigns aren't really deep you know

I have to disagree. At least for me Age of Empires 2 defined how a good campaign should look like. Interesting missions and a lot of history to learn from.

CoH1 didn't really fared any better...
Its original campaign was basically Call of Duty 2, but from birds view.

RTS campaigns aren't really deep you know and WW2 campaigns are all about tropes.

If anything, CoH1 campaign was way too heroic and CoH2 one actually have shown some desperation on soviet side, which was actually a thing.

I already once wrote that just taking Relic's real history, the game would be significantly exciting. And a great example: Mission 4 Mtsensk. When a handful of conscripts defend against the Germans in vain, then they are absent, they defend themselves together with the Guard and counter attacks together with the T-34.

Take the real story: When the Orejel - Mtsens highway was protected by more than 6,000 airborne troops who were transported with guns, mortars, eight T-37, DShK, and trucks by air. Some of the paratroopers landed under AA and Artillery fire. The paratroopers held their positions until the evening when tanks of the 4th tank brigade came to their aid, after which they jointly counterattack.

And we see that in the game the mission as a whole repeats real events, but it makes it extremely boring and not reliable. Either the money was not praised or simply laziness or bias. But make the animation of the plane, how the plane lands on the airfield, the paratroopers who leave the planes, the tanks that unhook from the planes. It's just epic and exciting.
The Mtsensk mission could be continued with the "Birth of Ace" mission, in which the best Soviet and Anti-Hitler coalition tank Ace was born further in the Mtsensk battles, its history is extremely exciting.

Another problem is that Relic was trying to embrace the immensity. They will focus on just one of the stages: the beginning of the war with the battle of Moscow or the Battle of Stalingrad with the Italian and Romanian troops, etc. In the single player campaign, the plot turned out to be very ragged and jumps from event to event.
And the following DLC ​​could be dedicated to other events of the Eastern Front, and even with the possibility of a new Soviet faction, because there are enough unimportant units for the new faction.

The Eastern Front is a whole treasure trove of stories and events from which you could make a great game and an addition to it on which you could make money, but Relic did it so awkwardly, so badly as if this was their first project and they did not care about this game.

Honest man, this is an awful thread that reads even worse than any tabloid news. I think you should give up spreading these rumors based on vague internet posts.

It's not cool to posts baseless rumours and speculations like that.

Please refrain from posting unnecessary comments that do not promote interesting discussions.
This is my forum thread not yours. Disagreements is fine (I dislike echo chambers), nitpicking is not.

Having said this, Glassdoor employee reviews is more newsworthy than legacy media.
That is just a fact and also check Glassdoor statistics for confirmation;

35 Glassdoor Statistics and Facts (2020) | By the Numbers:

https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/numbers-15-interesting-glassdoor-statistics/
Glassdoor is more than just a place for disgruntled ex-employees to go and vent about their company (yes, there is plenty of that going on there), but they are also doing interesting things in terms of salaries and industry research. When you hear about a jobs study these days, Glassdoor is often involved. Like Zillow is doing in the real estate space, Glassdoor is building aggregating a whole bunch of interesting and valuable user-generated data.

Glassdoor Statistics
How many Glassdoor users:
64 million monthly visitors
Last updated 3/23/19

Number of company reviews on Glassdoor:
55 million
Last updated 2/7/20

Number of jobs listed on Glassdoor:
12 million
Last updated 2/7/20

Number of companies reviewed on Glassdoor:
1 million employers
Last updated 2/7/20
*SNIP*

Sure there is fake Glassdoor reviews but those that can read between the lines can find useful information from anonymous employee reviews.

Which Relic employees and/or management promotes blind studio optimism and echo chambers mentality?
Who silence valid criticism and dissenting speech for selfish reasons?

Recent negative reviews help explain why and also warn about coming internal Relic conflicts and/or new talent bleed.
A big talent bleed happens in Relic from around 2007/2008 timeframe and they never fully recovered from that.
Relic creative director Rob Cunningham also left 2007 which is now the CEO of Blackbird Interactive which is basically Relic 2.0.
Relic today exists in name only and maybe half the studio now seems like EA Bioware 2.0 but with more employee benefits thx to Microsoft money.⁣

Should Relic fail with AoE, Microsoft likely will try to buy and/or hire Blackbird Interactive for future AoE projects.
https://blackbirdinteractive.com/projects/

Blackbird Interactive is working in partnership with Microsoft to bring the world of Minecraft to life through your mobile device! We’re thrilled to be contributing key features to Minecraft Earth, our first adventure in mobile game development.

If Glassdoor reviews was not newsworthy, Relic studio boss/General Manager also would not openly respond to viral reviews and admit to Relic growing pains as he did Jan 15, 2018
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Relic-Entertainment-RVW18568693.htm

Relic Entertainment Response
January 15, 2018 – General Manager
Relic Entertainment Response Jan 15, 2018 – General Manager
Hey,

First, I want to say thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts, I really do appreciate it. Many of the points laid out here we’re aware of, but you’ve given me a lot to think about as well.

We’ve been growing a lot as we gear up for our new projects. This is a really great thing for the future of Relic, but with that comes growing pains as well. I totally hear where you’re coming from regarding the dynamic with your leaders and managers. I’m not happy that you (and likely other employees) feel that you’re not being heard. Our games are the product of each and every person in the studio and I don’t believe we can be successful if we aren’t listening.

Given that you’re a current employee, I have a favor to ask of you – keep the feedback coming! Speak up at our AMAs, we can go grab a quick coffee, or you can just send me an email. I always want to hear your thoughts, not only about the good things, but also where we can improve and if I’ve let you down. Especially if I’ve let you down.

I’m proud to work with some of the most talented people in the industry, and it really will take all of us to keep Relic great.

Justin

Historically speaking Relic productivity has never done well with more than one development team.
When CoH2 were released in 2013 Relic had 110 employees. Today they are double the size and building to 300 employees.
Using LinkedIn as a source anyone can go back and see DoW3 questionable recruitment.
Relic HR is now doing the same mistake again with questionable recruitment to fill key CoH/AoE positions.

IMHO, AoE and CoH IP is bigger than Relic and will continue without Relic if need be.
Sega higher-ups won't tolerate another DoW3 failure.
So it would be quite humiliating for Relic to lose their only remaining IP to another studio.
If Relic flop with AoE and/or CoH3 no amount of money can save this studio from a catastrophic talent bleed.