Isn´t maxim aoe suppression

I think a price reduction to 250 ala MG34 is fair. I also think the vet one ability shouldn't force a reload. The force reload on incendiary rounds makes sense as it is literally firing a different type of ammo. On the Maxim it just feels like having to load a fresh mag on the AR15 rather than changing a selector from burst to full auto.

I'd rather reload before than pay muni to suppress the enemy, fire 1 bullet and start reloading.

Maxims slightly better survivability against explosives is pretty meaningless. The death loop ruins pretty much any advantage the crew size gives you. The 6 men is necessary for it to work, it's not a bonus

Maxims slightly better survivability against explosives is pretty meaningless. The death loop ruins pretty much any advantage the crew size gives you. The 6 men is necessary for it to work, it's not a bonus

Then lets limit SU stolen MGs crews to 4. If that is not a bonus. It shouldnt hurt in any way. What do you say? Certainly MG42 doesnt "need 6 man to work" it can do its job with 4 already

Then lets limit SU stolen MGs crews to 4. If that is not a bonus. It shouldnt hurt in any way. What do you say? Certainly MG42 doesnt "need 6 man to work" it can do its job with 4 already

Sure, don't care. That has nothing to do with my point

Then lets limit SU stolen MGs crews to 4. If that is not a bonus. It shouldnt hurt in any way. What do you say? Certainly MG42 doesnt "need 6 man to work" it can do its job with 4 already

OK but that literally doesn't fix anything.... The 6 men is supposed to be a faction trait but for the Maxim it's a necessity. That doesn't mean it's not a perk for other Mg. I've triple checked the title and it appears this is a maxim thread not a... What ever the fuck you are on about thread.

Then lets limit SU stolen MGs crews to 4. If that is not a bonus. It shouldnt hurt in any way. What do you say? Certainly MG42 doesnt "need 6 man to work" it can do its job with 4 already

Taking out a 4 man MG42 is not easier for Soviets than it is for Ostheer to take out a 6 man MG42.

I think a price reduction to 250 ala MG34 is fair. I also think the vet one ability shouldn't force a reload. The force reload on incendiary rounds makes sense as it is literally firing a different type of ammo. On the Maxim it just feels like having to load a fresh mag on the AR15 rather than changing a selector from burst to full auto.

I think its old price of 240 mp is more adaquate if it remains as is. The mg34 supresses better then the maxim and it can fight lv,s with ap ammo vet ability. And as we most agree on the deathloop al but eliminates the 160 hp advantidge that the maxim has.

Mg34 is less effective then the mg42 ofcourse but its better then a maxim. Price should reflect that imo.

I think its old price of 240 mp is more adaquate if it remains as is. The mg34 supresses better then the maxim and it can fight lv,s with ap ammo vet ability. And as we most agree on the deathloop al but eliminates the 160 hp advantidge that the maxim has.

Mg34 is less effective then the mg42 ofcourse but its better then a maxim. Price should reflect that imo.

Generally price should reflect performance but then there is also faction design.

HMG-42 is designed to be more cost efficient than other HMG because Ostheer were designed have more cost efficient team weapon and less cost efficient infatry. They already have taken a major blow to their support weapons with nerfs to mortar and the buffs to USF support weapon and they do not need more.

Unless one want to redesign the faction and make grenadier spam viable.

If maxim needs a buff and according to at least one top player is fine one could start by nerf to it counters like reducing the range of the incendiary grenade or moving to SP and replacing with fragmentation one.

Generally price should reflect performance but then there is also faction design.

HMG-42 is designed to be more cost efficient than other HMG because Ostheer were designed have more cost efficient team weapon and less cost efficient infatry. They already have taken a major blow to their support weapons with nerfs to mortar and the buffs to USF support weapon and they do not need more.

Unless one want to redesign the faction and make grenadier spam viable.

If maxim needs a buff and according to at least one top player is fine one could start by nerf to it counters like reducing the range of the incendiary grenade or moving to SP and replacing with fragmentation one.

I dont want to touch the mg42, its a good mg as is should be. All other mg,s are except maxim and maybe vickers but i dont use that very often.

Volks imo are the most cost effective main line out there. Defenitly far more then anything soviets have stock. So why is the mg34 better and cheaper then a maxim while volks are so much more cost effective?

I think adjusting grenades and ranges of grenades is not the way to go. All grenades are fine in any situation that doesn't involve the maxim. It would make grenades seriously underwelming in the entire game. Just to make the maxim more usable/naded and wiped frontaly less often.

The solution lies with the maxim imo. If its supposed to remain bad at vet0 (wich comes from a unrealistic maxim spam fear imo) price it as such, 260 mp is to high, soviets already dont float mp anyway. And 20 mp less is nothing game breaking it just signals its a worse mg overall and save you 2 to 3 cons models in a game depending how many maxims you get.

My money is on keeping it at 260mp make sustained fire vet 0 increase cost to 30 muni increase cooldown and have vet 1 lower cooldown and price to current stats. If it turns out its to strong increase the maxims price accordingly.

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Volks imo are the most cost effective main line out there. Defenitly far more then anything soviets have stock. So why is the mg34 better and cheaper then a maxim while volks are so much more cost effective?
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HMG 34 is not that great because it does very little damage and has allot of trouble vetting.

In addition it has higher tech cost and appears later on the field.

I have posted countless times about VGs and more specifically their MP44 that causes all the issues. With the upgrade VG are not more cost effective than conscripts.

HMG 34 is not that great because it does very little damage and has allot of trouble vetting.

In addition it has higher tech cost and appears later on the field.

I have posted countless times about VGs and more specifically their MP44 that causes all the issues. With the upgrade VG are not more cost effective than conscripts.

I should have mentioned the tech cost and timing beter my self. I know it comes later.
The mg34 vet problem because of low damage i didnt take into account, from now i will.

On volks we have to agree to disagree i think. Imo vs usf they are not so cost effective, on the other hand vs soviets they are imo at least. On the mp 44 causing the issues i do agree.

I should have mentioned the tech cost and timing beter my self. I know it comes later.
The mg34 vet problem because of low damage i didnt take into account, from now i will.

On volks we have to agree to disagree i think. Imo vs usf they are not so cost effective, on the other hand vs soviets they are imo at least. On the mp 44 causing the issues i do agree.

After constant troll attacks from certain users a civilized debate is a breath of fresh air.

It is totally fine that we do not agree on everything but imo given that VG are more expensive than Conscripts they do not feel more cost effective if they did not have access to the MP44.

I would guess that if one player was spamming conscripts and the other VGs without MP44 okw would eventually lose. Imo most of the cost effectiveness of VG comes from MP44s.

But this thread is about maxim and we better return to the theme of this thread.

After constant troll attacks from certain users a civilized debate is a breath of fresh air.

It is totally fine that we do not agree on everything but imo given that VG are more expensive than Conscripts they do not feel more cost effective if they did not have access to the MP44.

I would guess that if one player was spamming conscripts and the other VGs without MP44 okw would eventually lose. Imo most of the cost effectiveness of VG comes from MP44s.

Yeah the mp 44 is a very very safe choice. Its the main issue i got with volks. Its almost invalidates cons, they cant fight them long mid or close range when volks are upgraded. Only after 7th man do cons become able to trade 1v1 again.
If the mp44 got adressed earlier or they got a different upgrade maybe, rifles cons sections and even pgrens pfussies falls didnt need to be buffed.

Yeah the mp 44 is a very very safe choice. Its the main issue i got with volks. Its almost invalidates cons, they cant fight them long mid or close range when volks are upgraded. Only after 7th man do cons become able to trade 1v1 again.
If the mp44 got adressed earlier or they got a different upgrade maybe, rifles cons sections and even pgrens pfussies falls didnt need to be buffed.

I'd like to see basicly the kit from firestorm swapped with volks core.

Mo40s frag grenade and smoke. Then you have an assault Option OR a defensive option (standard rifle volks)
The firestorm upgrade would then be a better assault option of course but doctrinally locked and would lose access to the smoke which I feel like as a stock option losing would have more impact that a doctrinal option not getting of that makes sense.

Put the flame nade on sturms stock to make sure okw can still burn out tough garrisons but not every garrison on the map at any time. They would need to bring in a specialist like everyone else.

I think those changes would round out the okw and allow for buffs in other areas. Or rather we would be able to tell what else is an issue without volks plugging all the holes. Combined arms and strategy should the goal.

I'd like to see basicly the kit from firestorm swapped with volks core.

Mo40s frag grenade and smoke. Then you have an assault Option OR a defensive option (standard rifle volks)
The firestorm upgrade would then be a better assault option of course but doctrinally locked and would lose access to the smoke which I feel like as a stock option losing would have more impact that a doctrinal option not getting of that makes sense.

Put the flame nade on sturms stock to make sure okw can still burn out tough garrisons but not every garrison on the map at any time. They would need to bring in a specialist like everyone else.

+1
I dont know about sturm flamenade though.

I'd like to see basicly the kit from firestorm swapped with volks core.

Mo40s frag grenade and smoke. Then you have an assault Option OR a defensive option (standard rifle volks)
The firestorm upgrade would then be a better assault option of course but doctrinally locked and would lose access to the smoke which I feel like as a stock option losing would have more impact that a doctrinal option not getting of that makes sense.

Put the flame nade on sturms stock to make sure okw can still burn out tough garrisons but not every garrison on the map at any time. They would need to bring in a specialist like everyone else.

I think those changes would round out the okw and allow for buffs in other areas. Or rather we would be able to tell what else is an issue without volks plugging all the holes. Combined arms and strategy should the goal.

This is defenitly a way to takle volks. And highlight other areas okw needs changes.

I hope this is taking into a next patch to try.

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While the intent is nice, I dont agree with the execution. The problem is imo that Mp40 volks bully cons harder then STG volks. Mp40 volks have the close range dps to charge a squad of cons in cover and win convincingly. STG volks in the same scenario is a lot less one sided.

I think people often underestimate how powerful mp40 volks really are.

Edit: If you wanted to give volks MP40s in this manner, I would take a ppsh con approach and give them 2 or 3 mp40s at a reduced cost. I dont know about giving them smoke, we saw how bad it was with riflemen. If the mp40 upgrade was in any other doctrine, I think it would be borderline oppressive.

While the intent is nice, I dont agree with the execution. The problem is imo that Mp40 volks bully cons harder then STG volks. Mp40 volks have the close range dps to charge a squad of cons in cover and win convincingly. STG volks in the same scenario is a lot less one sided.

I think people often underestimate how powerful mp40 volks really are.

Edit: If you wanted to give volks MP40s in this manner, I would take a ppsh con approach and give them 2 or 3 mp40s at a reduced cost. I dont know about giving them smoke, we saw how bad it was with riflemen. If the mp40 upgrade was in any other doctrine, I think it would be borderline oppressive.

At least they would have to close though and there would be a range TO engage them but yea the con ppsh approach would be better.

Rifle smoke was a mess imo because rifles themselves were quite good. Top that off that the way ost was supposed to beat them was by suppression made things tricky that they could just say "nope". What's more, usf has smoke on nearly every unit in their core so displacing it from rifles pushed for useing other units where okw only has the leig. Not ha ING any smoke until as certain tier made it so okw was bullied hard by mgs and garrisons. I just want a bit more variation than volume of automatic fire wins the day and want a combined arms approach to making sturms more impactful in their small window

At least they would have to close though and there would be a range TO engage them but yea the con ppsh approach would be better.

Rifle smoke was a mess imo because rifles themselves were quite good. Top that off that the way ost was supposed to beat them was by suppression made things tricky that they could just say "nope". What's more, usf has smoke on nearly every unit in their core so displacing it from rifles pushed for useing other units where okw only has the leig. Not ha ING any smoke until as certain tier made it so okw was bullied hard by mgs and garrisons. I just want a bit more variation than volume of automatic fire wins the day and want a combined arms approach to making sturms more impactful in their small window

It would be better to give the smoke nades to Sturms instead of their stun nades.

Or rework the schreck upgrade to include support abilities like smoke nades or mark target to make it worth getting a second Sturm.

without volks plugging all the holes. Combined arms and strategy should the goal.

I am not sure if you noticed but Volksgrenadiers are the worst mainline infantry tied with Grenadiers at the moment. Please elaborate how Volksgrenadiers plug the holes when they are worse than any Allied mainline infantry.

How are you going to play OKW on open maps if you only have MP40 upgrade for your Volks? That's a completely crazy idea and I have no idea how anyone could come up with something like that.