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Some tuning may be needed though as adding a 5th man might cause some unwanted power spikes happen/ing
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Posts: 356
Its a little bit much to say that grens should survive a sherman HE round when you are talking about their survivabilityThey shouldn't cost so much to reinforce and t4 should give them a bolster ability like brits to upgrade to 5 men, that would be beneficial over what you get now.
Some tuning may be needed though as adding a 5th man might cause some unwanted power spikes happen/ing
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Non-doctrinal 5 man is just standardizing a game based on asymmetrical balance.
People wouldn't care nearly as much if the balance team actually fixed the economies between 1v1 and team games though. Since team games have more points, and drastically cheaper caches any attempts at balancing around economy are thrown out the window. A prohibitively expensive unit in 1v1 is OP in 4v4, while a cheap unit is OP in 1v1, worthless in 4v4.
You can tell who plays team games and who plays 1v1 with one simple question: is panther good? 1v1 players will say no it's worthless, and team game players will say it's end of the world OP.
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The problem is not amount of points. It's that map control doesn't change as much and cut off might be as well an obsolete concept.
It's also about popcap. Each new player adds up to 100 popcap worth of units to a team but the amount of VP and strat points you have to control remains the same.
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IIRC there's 14 standard territories on General mud.
There's 10 standard territories on most 1v1s except crossroads and nexus in the 1v1 map pool.
This comes out to a 20% increase in fuel income though my numbers might be a bit off since it's been like a month since I looked into it. Factor in resource caches and you've got a massive difference in fuel incomes.
While the unit density does play a large role in balancing team games, standardizing the resources would make things an order of magnitude easier for balance, and it's really not that hard to do.
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That depends on a map by map basis. While the stats are quite old, the game dynamics hasn't change that much so it would still be relevant.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/61229/resource-income-per-game-mode
Teamgames do end up getting more resources but the breaking point seems around pass the 12 min mark.
As i said before, the main problem with teamgames resources is that the income is steady and safe. The other problems such as caches, are kinda secondary. It would improve IMO if caches only rewarded the one who build them and anyone could "attach" themselves to an already existing cache by paying the same amount.
That said, the difference between 1v1 and 4v4 is smaller than I expected (around 200 fuel after 60 minutes). Also, it is noteworthy that before about 14 minutes the fuel incomes is slightly lower in the larger game modes.
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Nope, if you delay it by 30secs it doesn't need a buff, it can still do more than well enough.
If anything the 222 is way too good for coming out so early. Couple that with everyone skipping Grens start for 0CP call ins and you get those 4min 222s that are oppressive af.
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Well that is the biggest issue. Ostheer's power level in teamgames is excellent and Grens are fine when it's easy to back them up with 1-2 HMG 42s and Pioneers on a smaller piece of map where fights are more concentrated, or when you have a 251 or an OKW Battlegroup on the front lines for forward reinforcing. Ostheer teamgames performance is the reason why they haven't been getting any straight up buffs because it'd risk breaking the faction in those modes.
Any change has to be checked against all modes and that's where straight up Gren (or Ostheer) buffs run into a wall.
If there are going to be any changes they'd have to be smart changes that don't straight up increase the power level but rather influence things like momentum, so that they wouldn't influence the other modes as much. So for example I would think about something like adding a 150mp/15fu medics upgrade to the HQ (but keeping the medic bunker so players can choose what to invest) so that Ostheer no longer needs munitions for medics, so Grens can get their LMG 42s faster, as the upgrade really helps their early-mid game but isn't overly available right now because Ostheer needs to spend a lot of munitions on healing and tellers.
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(because anything above 2v2 shouldn't have a focus on balancing because that is a bordering on impossible task)
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The fact you can put a couple mg42s on a corridor map and a 251 does not make Grenadiers broken. I never heard an argument by the balance team that they wouldn’t buff riflemen because you can get an ambulance early and have it forward to heal and reinforce, or that they wouldn’t buff Cons because the M5 reinforcing would be OP. Not to mention mg42s in 4v4 can be countered by the plethora of indirect fire available to the allies. Where was this fear of teamgames breaking when Tommies got buffed?
All in all a Grenadier buff doesn’t break anything the same way Tommy and Riflemen buffs didn’t break teamgames.
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And those buff where followed by buffs to riflemen and IS, so do you see the vicious circle here?
Continues buff lead to power creep...
It high time buffs stop and nerfs start.
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That doesn't make any sense. Nerfs would be followed by other nerfs as well.
The vicious circle is caused by five factions, asymmetrical balance and unreasonable fanboys.
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Even though it's true that balancing for these modes is harder, 3v3 and 4v4 as a whole is also roughly 70% of the automatch playerbase so these modes deserve and need to be as balanced as possible too. The time of balancing just for 1v1 at the cost of all the other modes is long gone.
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