I can't find any use of it since the various nerfs it received. Comes later, no more zook, how is it any better than an UC that come way sooner and is cheaper.
Biggest problem is how late it comes when you need it to counter a sniper and how close the 222 hit the field after it leaving you no time to try to kill it. 222 has more space to kill it than you killing the sniper.
Then its damage, it was fine when it had survivability tools so you could vet it on the run, now it dies when a 222 decides to rush it and you don't have at least a vet1 rifle close by.
My personal feeling is that you build it and then spend too much time trying to micro it so it doesn't die than actually microing it to get some value from it.
I think in its current state it should come sooner - even remove the skirt upgrade if necessary.
Someone have use the M20 lately?
20 Apr 2020, 07:02 AM
#1
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
20 Apr 2020, 07:03 AM
#2
Posts: 1794
Yes makes it come sooner at sniper timings!
20 Apr 2020, 07:24 AM
#3
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
You can use it for those sweet sweet mines.
20 Apr 2020, 07:35 AM
#4
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
You can use it for those sweet sweet mines.
Ye, just having a M20 in presence makes enemy vehicle pressure slow down cause of mine fear.
I still see PFC running the M20 + Stuart combo, M20 has the same timing now as a rushed 222 which makes it hard to have an impact on its own, but with the Stuart it becomes quite a dominant combo (and can help Stuart with smoke). It also really helps protecting your flanks against lone squads.
20 Apr 2020, 07:38 AM
#5
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
M20 mines win games in a matter of seconds. Other than that though I think it’s nice in teamgames to pick away at squads when there’s still limited AT on the field
20 Apr 2020, 07:39 AM
#6
Posts: 1794
nah m20 is only useful in 1v1. Any more team mates and it goes down like a bitch because of 222 and luch counter easily.
20 Apr 2020, 07:53 AM
#7
Posts: 1273
I haven't seen it for months in 2on2, and if I do spot a M20, I just get a minesweeper for the obvious mines. Problem solved. It has been hit hard by the nerf hammer into oblivion.
People mentioning that they're using it in 2on2/3on3/4on4 never used it. There's too much enemy AT ages before the window of opportunity for the M20 in team based games. Good team players avoid the M20 in team games and rush for a AA instead, which is much much better. M20 a dead unit in team games, it has only very limited use in 1on1.
People mentioning that they're using it in 2on2/3on3/4on4 never used it. There's too much enemy AT ages before the window of opportunity for the M20 in team based games. Good team players avoid the M20 in team games and rush for a AA instead, which is much much better. M20 a dead unit in team games, it has only very limited use in 1on1.
20 Apr 2020, 08:01 AM
#8
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
They should probably just partially revert the build time nerf. Removing Bazooka + build time was too much. It just doesn't have any window of opportunity
20 Apr 2020, 08:02 AM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I used even in 4v4.
One gets great sight, 40 range, mines, smoke and even a AA hmg.
Although there are some changes that I would like to see like making the upgrade cost fuel and manpower instead mu.
I personally find it be better than the doctrinal 221.
One gets great sight, 40 range, mines, smoke and even a AA hmg.
Although there are some changes that I would like to see like making the upgrade cost fuel and manpower instead mu.
I personally find it be better than the doctrinal 221.
20 Apr 2020, 09:04 AM
#10
Posts: 563
I mean you could make it so the crew has to upgrade bazookas instead of being free. The lack of reliable at in lt is already quite considerable,id have x2 bazooka as upgrade option.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
20 Apr 2020, 09:10 AM
#11
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I mean you could make it so the crew has to upgrade bazookas instead of being free. The lack of reliable at in lt is already quite considerable,id have x2 bazooka as upgrade option.
AT get bazooka, AP rounds for 0.50, AT mines and Stuart. It has enough option and that is why it is prefer over Cap.
Finally captain unlock is rather cheap so are bazooka unlock. There is no real need for double bazooka crew.
20 Apr 2020, 12:04 PM
#12
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
M20 mines win games in a matter of seconds. Other than that though I think it’s nice in teamgames to pick away at squads when there’s still limited AT on the field
Hardly make an argument for it, should we remove the flamethrower from pioneers and engineers because they have mines? Should we remove the zook from SP since they also have mines?
M20 is meant to be build for early aggressive play but it can't do it anymore since it doesn't come anymore enough early and can't defend itself if the lieutenant isn't nearby.
20 Apr 2020, 12:44 PM
#13
Posts: 956
*Ponders the meaning of M20, in Puma*
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
20 Apr 2020, 13:14 PM
#14
Posts: 55
Yes, I agree. It comes way too late. And doesn't give you enough value for the micro you put into it. It was certain that this unit will disappear from meta after the nerfs it took, so no surprise there if nobody uses it anymore.
What's surprising, however, is that they didn't revert any of its nerfs after nerfing both its timing and firepower. I thought they'd buff it a little bit after those harsh nerfs it took. I don't know whether the balance team thinks it's in a good state right now or they simply forget it.
What's surprising, however, is that they didn't revert any of its nerfs after nerfing both its timing and firepower. I thought they'd buff it a little bit after those harsh nerfs it took. I don't know whether the balance team thinks it's in a good state right now or they simply forget it.
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20 Apr 2020, 13:46 PM
#15
Posts: 132
I totally love the unit, since I started playing it lately. It has a great speed and at vet 3 I believe is the fastest unit in this game. I use to kill Sturms, flank mgs and also push around few volks or grens. I love using it and always get it to vet3 . The mines on them are icing on the cake, but Idk why they cost 60 ammo when OST engis can make the same for 50, dmg difference idk.Tho wouldn't mind any buffs to my unicorn since I love to use it against ostheer. But yeah the awesomness of M15 Halftrack has made Lt secondary.
20 Apr 2020, 14:43 PM
#16
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Nothing like rushing your Sniper counter to realize you have one chance to kill it before a 222 runs your M20 down.
Specially in 2s, where 2 MG opening into PGs is common, denying you veterancy for Riflemen snares.
Specially in 2s, where 2 MG opening into PGs is common, denying you veterancy for Riflemen snares.
20 Apr 2020, 14:47 PM
#17
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I totally love the unit, since I started playing it lately. It has a great speed and at vet 3 I believe is the fastest unit in this game. I use to kill Sturms, flank mgs and also push around few volks or grens. I love using it and always get it to vet3 . The mines on them are icing on the cake, but Idk why they cost 60 ammo when OST engis can make the same for 50, dmg difference idk.Tho wouldn't mind any buffs to my unicorn since I love to use it against ostheer. But yeah the awesomness of M15 Halftrack has made Lt secondary.
It's 60 because it's a copy of the Ostheer Riegel mine - 320 damage and immobilize crit instead of engine damage. Any tank hit by that is going to have a hard time staying alive against follow up attacks.
20 Apr 2020, 14:49 PM
#18
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Nothing like rushing your Sniper counter to realize you have one chance to kill it before a 222 runs your M20 down.
Specially in 2s, where 2 MG opening into PGs is common, denying you veterancy for Riflemen snares.
That's the design
USF wipes the floor with Ost in the infantry department with only good MG positioning to counter.
Ost wipes the floor with USF using the sniper with only good vehicle play to counter.
I don't agree with it, but you can't deny its existence.
M20 is meant to be build for early aggressive play but it can't do it anymore since it doesn't come anymore enough early and can't defend itself if the lieutenant isn't nearby.
You already have the WC51 for early aggressive play. M20 can harrass flanks vs non-snare infantry, lay down heavy anti tank mines and scout ahead.
If there is to be an M20 buff, I'd rather see the mine locked behind vet 1 and the armour skirts being more expensive but giving more armour and maybe camouflage at vet 3.
20 Apr 2020, 14:57 PM
#19
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
It's 60 because it's a copy of the Ostheer Riegel mine - 320 damage and immobilize crit instead of engine damage. Any tank hit by that is going to have a hard time staying alive against follow up attacks.
Riegel mines are 50 munitions. The M20 mines are more expensive however because (on top of dealing immobilization crits) they deal 400 damage rather than the Riegel's 320 and can OHK light vehicles as well as immobilize anything else.
20 Apr 2020, 15:22 PM
#20
Posts: 1954
M20 mines win games in a matter of seconds. Other than that though I think it’s nice in teamgames to pick away at squads when there’s still limited AT on the field
They still have a use in team games. You can't always keep armor from getting behind the front lines so the M20 mines on roads sometimes save low-health tanks or mobile arty. I get them more often when I can't get regular doctrinal mines. The AA on it is really good after it is vetted up. They're also good at keeping MG's on your flank from getting flanked.
They also help end mismatches faster and can be really good if your opponent doesn't know how to counter.
If I had any complaints about it, it would be that they should have reduced the cost of the skirts down to around 20 munis after taking away the bazooka.
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