Congratulations balance team

the problem with this logic is that players right now roflstomp others which they knew previously they could keep up a good fight espacially as another faction. I play brits right now, and they sure feel much easier then soviets which can be a struggle. 6 sections can be maintained more easily then 4 cons right now XD

And how exactly is getting rekt by a much better player doing a meme strat the same as getting rekt by equally skilled players spamming sections with minimal effort?

Read slowly and read carefully what i posted before.

I didn't deny that UKF COULD be OP. I constantly said that if IS spam is VIABLE is stupid. I'm remarking that the examples given are bad and that the other 4 factions can do the same on those examples.

You could still maintain a 6 IS in the last patch. The changes to them are not as big in RAW performance. I'm more interested in the smoke they have access now, the medic and the Officer than the sheer performance of IS.

PD: nothing was done with Bolster and it will always be an issue.

So are actually saying that HMG-42 is not superior to other HMG when it comes to dealing with blobs?

I'm not gonna play the same game you have with Katitof.
I'm saying that any faction, when faced with a disproportionate army value and usage of commander skills, will get overwhelmed.

PD: you were EXTREMELY LUCKY with that FF

PD2: 5 squads of 5 men Grenadiers with 4 Stug spam > IS spam + FF

i don't see anything wrong? Just some Infantry Sections running like the old ww1 days. Nothing to blance l2p

I'm saying that any faction, when faced with a disproportionate army value and usage of commander skills, will get overwhelmed.

If you want to see something hilarious, do another simulation but replace the MG42's with 50cals, Grens with Rifles (even give them a bar), then replace the IS with Falls. I had that happen to me, but didn't think it was worth a balance thread.

i don't see anything wrong? Just some Infantry Sections running like the old ww1 days. Nothing to blance l2p

...
I'm not gonna play the same game you have with Katitof.

I am not playing any game with katitof.

I'm saying that any faction, when faced with a disproportionate army value and usage of commander skills, will get overwhelmed.

This actually cover me:

"I constantly said that if IS spam is VIABLE is stupid."

Check again. 3 squads get's suppressed before the camera pans out. The model which throws the grenade comes from the far left squad which is not suppressed BEFORE the grenade is on the air.

Show Spoiler

As you can see, center-left squad is suppressed but the model i've circled is mid animation. It's a bit hard to tell in a still frame, but it is not in the air.

The 2nd grenade comes from the far left squad which wipes the MG, and yes that squad was not suppressed before the grenade goes out.

I know we're a bit late with this but we seem to have finally fixed this problem (grenade throwing animation not getting cancelled by suppression) just now so hopefully we can hotfix that soon. I think a significant part of the Infantry Section cheese (across all patches) has been caused by the fact that HMGs don't always work as well against them because they could still throw the mills/arty grenade while getting suppressed.

If it has been fixed, that is good. If it's still there after the hotfix, we can check but at least there's an attempt

PD: you were EXTREMELY LUCKY with that FF

PD2: 5 squads of 5 men Grenadiers with 4 Stug spam > IS spam + FF

5* Stugs

Have watched that game, here is summary:

IS spam can be defeated, all it takes is gren spam

5* Stugs

Have watched that game, here is summary:
Show Spoiler

The replay of which you can watch here: Show Spoiler

I am not entirely sure whether more and more people will try double Brits and use this IS spam strategy. This "new meta" would become quite tedious over time and is simply about who is blobbing better.

Furthermore, I have not watched any OKW vs UKF 1v1 games yet, in which the UKF player is executing this questionable strategy. It might be too early to judge so few days after patch's release anyway.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/578324835

This VOD contains competitive games with buffed Brits. Finals of the last 2v2 tournament.

Maybe interesting to watch for some of the people that think UKF is suddenly insanely OP and unbeatable

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/578324835

This VOD contains competitive games with buffed Brits. Finals of the last 2v2 tournament.

Maybe interesting to watch for some of the people that think UKF is suddenly insanely OP and unbeatable

Here’s a VOD of Noggano vs Asha

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/588545153

Perfect demonstration of how broken sections are in 1v1.

osttruppen vs brits lmao

And the is an indication of that brute force has become simply too much and we should start nerfings things instead of continuing buffing them.

And how exactly is getting rekt by a much better player doing a meme strat the same as getting rekt by equally skilled players spamming sections with minimal effort?

Dont know about you, but I consider seeking's (who im told is the ukf player in those clips) brits/allies a solid tier above mirageflas ost.

yeah, pre patch brits sucked, but IS wasn't the reason why they were bad, the balance team knew this and still decided to buff them. Its just complete stupidity at this point.

Its dumb to see this kind of tactic being viable at the higher levels.

Jesus H Christ what the fuck am I reading here.

Alright fellas, you better strap in because I'm about to show you why sections are fucking ridiculous, Let's begin with the early game where they are at their weakest- Oh, wait they're fucking not.

So this is where the section problems begin, right out of the fucking gate, so ask yourself why are sections stronger early game?
Simple, they have a numbers advantage because they start with their mainline right out of the game, ostheer and okw both have engineer units who are CQC oriented right? So on a pound to pound basis where your mainline production is going to be similar (4 volks/3volks+1fusi, 3grens/4grens) You are going to be outnumbered because the meta is going 5 sections, now you could make the case that trying to equal the numbers out is viable (its not really the case, as i've tried time and time again vs brits with 5 volks doesn't work)
So from out of the gate on a quality level he's going to have an advantage, on some maps, this may be weaker, but as you can see in the clips earlier, getting close with grens is a fool's quest, it doesn't allow you to actually trade well because you'll lose half the squad so fucking quickly and then he can retreat away with having suffered no bleed at all.

Alright so that's the first problem out of the way, now let's throw in the rest
They get self spotting at vet 1
They get self-healing which means they can be on the map constantly with no drawback while everyone else has to retreat
they get sandbags and trenches which is way stronger in their hands than any other unit because of the cover bonus
And (I'm not 100% this is true but I've heard it before) they get a 25% faster cap rate.

So from the initial engagements, it's not unrealistic to actually being forced to charge right on to a sandbag section. So let me ask you this as a follow-up. Should i be rewarded for making a sandbag and sitting my ass down to hold a point despite it requires almost no effort on my end? and almost thrice the effort of my opponent to push me out?

Quite frankly sandbgs have no place on ANY mainline infantry and should be promptly removed.

Moving on
Trading efficiency
Fun fact, normal greens are completely irrelevant in the brit matchup because you cannot on any level trade efficiently and have to spend 60 munis on another gren to compete with the sections+ veterancy to get the remotest of chances to compete with them.
The simple reason is well grens cost 30 to reinforce sections cost 28 mp to reinforce, so now you're at a situation where you cannot win most of the engagements you take that are going to be one on one and even if you do you still come out losing manpower wise.


So i could go on about this forever (lmg upgrades being fucking ridiculously strong for example, assault being retarded, officer having free recon, AEC timing negating 222s and 250s, the amazing teching they get which allows for 11 minute cromwells. or the fact that you get a premium high end Comet with phopshours,smoke,blitz,grenades and amazing armour which allows you to bounce KTs. The command aura from churchills having abusrdly strong bonuses. ect ect) but I won't because it's quite frankly a waste of time since I have a feeling most of you will just ignore what I'm saying anyway. So let's move over to what i think is a good solution

My suggestion for a solution that i think would work, get rid of sandbags, trenches, give them five man out of the gate, get rid of the coverbonus, decrease their firepower and reduce their cost if need be and give them a snare if its so fucking desperate to deal with LVHs. Reduce the AECs anti infantryt pintle and make treadbreak not get stronger with vet. make the vickers 50 muni per, Make assault sections lose their phosp grenade, and increase the last tech level for brits so the cromwell doesn't get the best timing in the game.

Dont know about you, but I consider seeking's (who im told is the ukf player in those clips) brits/allies a solid tier above mirageflas ost.

I watched the stream and I agree with this assessment, with full respect to miragefla.
These clips are hardly evidence that infantry section is op.

What they do highlight is the losing player's inability to adapt to the recent changes and to exploit the weakness of UKF.

The fact is that infantry sections is the second most expensive main line infantry, and that has to be kept in mind when deciding which engagement to pick as well as build order.

I don't understand why this thread has blown up.

1) Regardless of attacking or defending faction, the result would be the same. 2x the Manpower in units, Grenades, and a docrtinal buff is always going to overpower a few poorly placed and protected MGs. (And they should)

2) This would have happened even before the British Buffs. None of the changes to Tommys had any notable effect on this engagement.

3) You really don't want a game where two MGs can shut down an entire side against an unlimited number of units.

Jesus H Christ what the fuck am I reading here.

Alright fellas, you better strap in because I'm about to show you why sections are fucking ridiculous, Let's begin with the early game where they are at their weakest- Oh, wait they're fucking not.

So this is where the section problems begin, right out of the fucking gate, so ask yourself why are sections stronger early game?
Simple, they have a numbers advantage because they start with their mainline right out of the game, ostheer and okw both have engineer units who are CQC oriented right? So on a pound to pound basis where your mainline production is going to be similar (4 volks/3volks+1fusi, 3grens/4grens) You are going to be outnumbered because the meta is going 5 sections, now you could make the case that trying to equal the numbers out is viable (its not really the case, as i've tried time and time again vs brits with 5 volks doesn't work)
So from out of the gate on a quality level he's going to have an advantage, on some maps, this may be weaker, but as you can see in the clips earlier, getting close with grens is a fool's quest, it doesn't allow you to actually trade well because you'll lose half the squad so fucking quickly and then he can retreat away with having suffered no bleed at all.

Alright so that's the first problem out of the way, now let's throw in the rest
They get self spotting at vet 1
They get self-healing which means they can be on the map constantly with no drawback while everyone else has to retreat
they get sandbags and trenches which is way stronger in their hands than any other unit because of the cover bonus
And (I'm not 100% this is true but I've heard it before) they get a 25% faster cap rate.

So from the initial engagements, it's not unrealistic to actually being forced to charge right on to a sandbag section. So let me ask you this as a follow-up. Should i be rewarded for making a sandbag and sitting my ass down to hold a point despite it requires almost no effort on my end? and almost thrice the effort of my opponent to push me out?

Quite frankly sandbgs have no place on ANY mainline infantry and should be promptly removed.

Moving on
Trading efficiency
Fun fact, normal greens are completely irrelevant in the brit matchup because you cannot on any level trade efficiently and have to spend 60 munis on another gren to compete with the sections+ veterancy to get the remotest of chances to compete with them.
The simple reason is well grens cost 30 to reinforce sections cost 28 mp to reinforce, so now you're at a situation where you cannot win most of the engagements you take that are going to be one on one and even if you do you still come out losing manpower wise.


So i could go on about this forever (lmg upgrades being fucking ridiculously strong for example, assault being retarded, officer having free recon, AEC timing negating 222s and 250s, the amazing teching they get which allows for 11 minute cromwells. or the fact that you get a premium high end Comet with phopshours,smoke,blitz,grenades and amazing armour which allows you to bounce KTs. The command aura from churchills having abusrdly strong bonuses. ect ect) but I won't because it's quite frankly a waste of time since I have a feeling most of you will just ignore what I'm saying anyway. So let's move over to what i think is a good solution

My suggestion for a solution that i think would work, get rid of sandbags, trenches, give them five man out of the gate, get rid of the coverbonus, decrease their firepower and reduce their cost if need be and give them a snare if its so fucking desperate to deal with LVHs. Reduce the AECs anti infantryt pintle and make treadbreak not get stronger with vet. make the vickers 50 muni per, Make assault sections lose their phosp grenade, and increase the last tech level for brits so the cromwell doesn't get the best timing in the game.

Preach

I don't understand why this thread has blown up..

Because if this was the soviets and they tried to build a 10 conscript army, they’d get deleted. Brits just delete the opposition easily.

The clip is extremely telling, the section blob out-trades the Ost player all game until it reaches critical mass and wipes half his army.

Not to mention the two players from that clip, miragefla and seeking, both agree there’s a huge issue with Sections, while other high level players like Noggano also agree.

If anything I’m surprised so many people are defending this state that sections are in.

Jesus H Christ what the fuck am I reading here.

Alright fellas, you better strap in because I'm about to show you why sections are fucking ridiculous, Let's begin with the early game where they are at their weakest- Oh, wait they're fucking not.

So this is where the section problems begin, right out of the fucking gate, so ask yourself why are sections stronger early game?
Simple, they have a numbers advantage because they start with their mainline right out of the game, ostheer and okw both have engineer units who are CQC oriented right? So on a pound to pound basis where your mainline production is going to be similar (4 volks/3volks+1fusi, 3grens/4grens) You are going to be outnumbered because the meta is going 5 sections, now you could make the case that trying to equal the numbers out is viable (its not really the case, as i've tried time and time again vs brits with 5 volks doesn't work)
So from out of the gate on a quality level he's going to have an advantage, on some maps, this may be weaker, but as you can see in the clips earlier, getting close with grens is a fool's quest, it doesn't allow you to actually trade well because you'll lose half the squad so fucking quickly and then he can retreat away with having suffered no bleed at all.

Alright so that's the first problem out of the way, now let's throw in the rest
They get self spotting at vet 1
They get self-healing which means they can be on the map constantly with no drawback while everyone else has to retreat
they get sandbags and trenches which is way stronger in their hands than any other unit because of the cover bonus
And (I'm not 100% this is true but I've heard it before) they get a 25% faster cap rate.

So from the initial engagements, it's not unrealistic to actually being forced to charge right on to a sandbag section. So let me ask you this as a follow-up. Should i be rewarded for making a sandbag and sitting my ass down to hold a point despite it requires almost no effort on my end? and almost thrice the effort of my opponent to push me out?

Quite frankly sandbgs have no place on ANY mainline infantry and should be promptly removed.

Moving on
Trading efficiency
Fun fact, normal greens are completely irrelevant in the brit matchup because you cannot on any level trade efficiently and have to spend 60 munis on another gren to compete with the sections+ veterancy to get the remotest of chances to compete with them.
The simple reason is well grens cost 30 to reinforce sections cost 28 mp to reinforce, so now you're at a situation where you cannot win most of the engagements you take that are going to be one on one and even if you do you still come out losing manpower wise.


So i could go on about this forever (lmg upgrades being fucking ridiculously strong for example, assault being retarded, officer having free recon, AEC timing negating 222s and 250s, the amazing teching they get which allows for 11 minute cromwells. or the fact that you get a premium high end Comet with phopshours,smoke,blitz,grenades and amazing armour which allows you to bounce KTs. The command aura from churchills having abusrdly strong bonuses. ect ect) but I won't because it's quite frankly a waste of time since I have a feeling most of you will just ignore what I'm saying anyway. So let's move over to what i think is a good solution

My suggestion for a solution that i think would work, get rid of sandbags, trenches, give them five man out of the gate, get rid of the coverbonus, decrease their firepower and reduce their cost if need be and give them a snare if its so fucking desperate to deal with LVHs. Reduce the AECs anti infantryt pintle and make treadbreak not get stronger with vet. make the vickers 50 muni per, Make assault sections lose their phosp grenade, and increase the last tech level for brits so the cromwell doesn't get the best timing in the game.

now it all makes sense. +1