Congratulations balance team

I know what he means but that is not self spotting. Self spotting is the ability of certain units to see (almost) as far as their own weapon range so that they do not need other units to spot for them in order to fire from max range. For example the Command Panther and the Puma both with 50 weapon and 50 sight range, or a Pathfinders recrewed M2HB with 45 weapon range and 50 sight range.

Infantry Sections can not self spot by definition because the maximum range on any of their weapons is 35 which is the same as the standard sight range.


Being able to see further is not self spotting and does not give an as significant advantage. I don't want to start a semantics discussion here but self spotting is a clearly defined and powerful trait and it's important keep that separated from this discussion and stop randomly attributing things to Infantry Sections that aren't true.

They can see quite a bit further at vet 1 when in cover (45) which helps with reconnaissance and which helps to spot for HMGs and ATGs and other vehicles and that is quite powerful. They have it because they are tied to cover more than other mainline infantry and generally can't be as far forwards. Perhaps it can be toned down now. But it's not self spotting and a top player like Orangepest should know the difference.

I didnt mean selfspot, sometimes i mix up terms, the ability for every single mainline to have extremely strong spotting range is beyond powerful because on a map like faymonvile where you're going to be hugging cover 60-80% of the time.

It means that for example i place the typical sandbag center and will see... any coming flanks from the northern front, the point left from there, meaning any flanks will be spotted almost instantly, and the flanks from the truck point. Now i'll admit this might not be 100% certainty in terms of testing, but i find that to be the case frequently and it makes for nightmares trying to push someone who's playing defensivly because he gets all the chances to prepare and move around as he wishes while you have to constantly use sightblockers, it also works excellently for units with great range like vetted up vickers (in trench) or simply giving your vickers constant max range firewithout having to expose it self or having your sections move forward that much more.

I think you are very heavily (maybe delibaretly.) underplaying the power of having your mainline infantry get amazing sight range. its partly why pathfinders are as powerful as they are, sight is a great tool. Which is why it's assinged to certain vehicles that come out early rather than later, having your tanks the ability to fire max range almost always is a great boon.

brits stay in cover on vital points all the time, so do conscripts its one of their main assets, pls dont tell me how to play the game

Yes, and you're not going to spot opposing defending force from your own defensive position without scouting unit or moving sections out of cover forward...

Why everyone is just comparing the costs ? It is literally hypocracy to say MGs are natural counters to blobs and "this clip" is fine.

In the clip they dont even have weapon upgrades and straight up frontrally engage MGs, which is not fun.

1 squad can crawl up to Maxim, its impotent at stopping anything, blobs obliterate it and it can't even suppress 2 LMG ober squads before they wipe it.
Vickers also got pretty low suppression, but at least it might kill a nade throwing model first, giving it a chance to suppress the squad.
.50 cal is pretty good, but extremely rarely used due to how faction plays.
HMG-34 is only slightly worse then 42, which is in line of its cost.

HMGs do counter blobs, but they don't do it alone. You're going to have to use spotter to fully benefit from HMGs range.

60 range TDs also don't exactly shine with vehicle up their face, so scouting is needed too.

How is it an argument?

it's not

according to his logic you should not build medium tanks because other factions can also build medium tanks and possibly even kill your medium tank if they have better micro.

Actually wehr sniper is probably the best weapon ostheer have vs brits. It was such a problem before they had to rework bolster and IS mp costs, not to mention AEC in older patches because sniper used to shut them down so hard.

complete rubbish, trash even.

Can't go sniper because your UKF opponent can build a sniper? then surely that is countering his build. You're forcing him to buy a Brit sniper and early engineers, because with 5 IS he will have no snares.

We also have ashablios top 1 in all factions complaining IS were too weak with 0.90 RA last patch. Surely his and others that said IS were crap carry weight? Or are Asian players ignored because they don't partake in the english community as much.

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how is this anything to do with snipers?

How are you going to accomplish that, when extra sight works only in cover, when you're stationary?

That is incorrect the sight bonus requires cover but does NOT require to be stationary.


You can't attack and defend with the same unit at the same time and lets be honest, even biggest pros do not advance taking pauses in cover.

Also, ost pios do that without having to sit in cover.
In addition IS have access to Pyro upgrade that provide unrestricted vision bonus.

That is incorrect the sight bonus requires cover but does NOT require to be stationary.

You can't attack and defend with the same unit at the same time and lets be honest, even biggest pros do not advance taking pauses in cover.

Also, ost pios do that without having to sit in cover.
In addition IS have access to Pyro upgrade that provide unrestricted vision bonus.

Brits unlike Axis don't have a MG that can reliably suppress to make use of that LoS, or a mortar to bombard anything with

I don't understand why the spotting bonus isn't just moved to Pyro Sections completely. Consider UKF already has extra sight on most of their tanks with tank commander and on the AEC. It makes AT guns and HMG's very oppressive.

1 squad can crawl up to Maxim, its impotent at stopping anything, blobs obliterate it and it can't even suppress 2 LMG ober squads before they wipe it.
Vickers also got pretty low suppression, but at least it might kill a nade throwing model first, giving it a chance to suppress the squad.
.50 cal is pretty good, but extremely rarely used due to how faction plays.
HMG-34 is only slightly worse then 42, which is in line of its cost.

HMGs do counter blobs, but they don't do it alone. You're going to have to use spotter to fully benefit from HMGs range.

* Maxim should be an MG too not a meme. Its not like I am saying MG42 must do stuff and maxim shouldn't. MGs must punish frontal assaults with infantry.

*MGs in the video are quite supported with grens if you ask me.

Brits unlike Axis don't have a MG that can reliably suppress to make use of that LoS, or a mortar to bombard anything with

1) Read the context it has been argue that IS do not have an advantage from sight bonuses because they can scout the enemy HMGs. They easily can because they can have bonus sight on the move.

2) A vikcers with LOS firing at max ranges will suppress just fine.

1) Read the context it has been argue that IS do not have an advantage from sight bonuses because they can scout the enemy HMGs.

2) A vikcers with LOS firing at max ranges will suppress just fine.

vickers problem is you need to maintain vet for it to do its job (control blob). Actually I would agree with you it can do that once vet.

Buuuuut once you get decrewed it's useless midgame and will just get frontally beamed dead by obers and other fun axis infantry. Then you have no suppression platform as vet inf can just frontally kill it. This is a major teamgame problem where vet teamweapons don't stay alive long.

I know you like tests so you can test it yourself

Vickers should have it's high DPS unlocked by vet and instead of vet suppression should have that made stock. Easy fix

2) A vikcers with LOS firing at max ranges will suppress just fine.

So will HMG42 as I just mentioned, thank you for finally agreeing with what I've said.

*MGs in the video are quite supported with grens if you ask me.

I wouldn't say so if infantry is able to shoot at HMG before HMG starts shooting at them, range advantage, therefore more time to suppress and pin or suppress wider push is completely invalidated as 1 HMG shoots when tommies are at range 20-25 and other when they are at 30 or less, HMGs have 45 range.

So will HMG42 as I just mentioned, thank you for finally agreeing with what I've said.

So according to you HMG-42 has no advantage in suppression over vickers when having los, ok great to hear.

Now can you pls stop trolling?

I think you are very heavily (maybe delibaretly.) underplaying the power of having your mainline infantry get amazing sight range.

I don't know why you'd accuse me of deliberately downplaying it when I said it is powerful and that it might be something that could be toned down. Furthermore 45 sight range only when vet 1 and when stationary in cover, even if powerful, is noticeably worse than vet 0 50 sight range while moving that squads like Pathfinders and JLI have. Pioneers and G43 upgraded infantry have 42 sight range regardless of being stationary or in cover and that's never been a problem either.

I don't know why you'd accuse me of deliberately downplaying it when I said it is powerful and that it might be something that could be toned down. Furthermore 45 sight range only when vet 1 and when stationary in cover, even if powerful, is noticeably worse than 50 sight range while moving that squads like Pathfinders and JLI have. Even Pioneers have 42 sight range regardless of being stationary or in cover.

Vet 1 ability does not require stationary only cover.

Pyro does not require either stationary nor cover and stacks.

Comparing mainline infatry with other type of units including doctrinal/reckon units is rather misleading.

IS get a 10 sight bonus in cover at vet 1 while VG get a 7 sight bonus at vet 4.

The sight bonus of UKF is significant and can be combined with calling arty or smoke.

To add more fuel to the fire UKF now become the second faction to have stock access to reckon flights for no apparent reason.

Imp Stock reckon flight should either become available to all faction or removed from all factions.

I don't know why you'd accuse me of deliberately downplaying it when I said it is powerful and that it might be something that could be toned down. Furthermore 45 sight range only when vet 1 and when stationary in cover, even if powerful, is noticeably worse than vet 0 50 sight range while moving that squads like Pathfinders and JLI have. Even Pioneers have 42 sight range regardless of being stationary or in cover.

Yeah but those are specialist squads, mainlines only have 35 sight. If Volks had 45 sight at vet 1 it would be a huge issue.

I don't understand why the spotting bonus isn't just moved to Pyro Sections completely. Consider UKF already has extra sight on most of their tanks with tank commander and on the AEC. It makes AT guns and HMG's very oppressive.

Exactly

Yeah but those are specialist squads, mainlines only have 35 sight. If Volks had 45 sight at vet 1 it would be a huge issue.

So you agree we should be removing it from pfuss as well?

So you agree we should be removing it from pfuss as well?

Agree? I’d straight up remove the entire G43 upgrade if it were up to me.

Make them a call in AT squad and be done with it.

I don't know why you'd accuse me of deliberately downplaying it when I said it is powerful and that it might be something that could be toned down. Furthermore 45 sight range only when vet 1 and when stationary in cover, even if powerful, is noticeably worse than vet 0 50 sight range while moving that squads like Pathfinders and JLI have. Even Pioneers have 42 sight range regardless of being stationary or in cover.

All the units you just mentioned have either major flaws or require doctrinal.

But most importantly, they cannot be deployed en masse effectively.

At most you see 1-2 pathfinder squads
At most you see 1-2 JLI
At most you see 1-3 pio squads (who have to make the gap up quite siginificantly because they are honeslty quite fucking shite in any other regard)
With sections you're going to get 3-5 which means you have much more significant coverage.

Yes, and you're not going to spot opposing defending force from your own defensive position without scouting unit or moving sections out of cover forward...

1 squad can crawl up to Maxim, its impotent at stopping anything, blobs obliterate it and it can't even suppress 2 LMG ober squads before they wipe it.
Vickers also got pretty low suppression, but at least it might kill a nade throwing model first, giving it a chance to suppress the squad.
.50 cal is pretty good, but extremely rarely used due to how faction plays.
HMG-34 is only slightly worse then 42, which is in line of its cost.

HMGs do counter blobs, but they don't do it alone. You're going to have to use spotter to fully benefit from HMGs range.

60 range TDs also don't exactly shine with vehicle up their face, so scouting is needed too.

ofc you can, since mg42s get used offensivly all the time..., a good wher player supports his push by a mg42, and who said its a defensive force? The brit player stays behind cover on a vital enemy point and ofc it is a significant advantage to see what the wher or OKW guy is going to push at you before he can see your defensive positions

You can muster troops to support of flank the mg 42