Tiger nerf

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2020, 16:19 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Exactly, which is why it’s pointless to go Tiger. The meta has thus shifted to 5man Grens in 1v1/2v2 to bolster the infantry war by quite a margin, while Panzer IVs and the buffed Brummbar can bear the brunt of fighting infantry and Panthers are there for fighting heavies, as well as the Elephant alternative pick to 5man Grens as an ISU152 counter. It’s not worth picking a Tiger doctrine just to pay double the P4 price for a P4’s anti infantry and to make do with LMG Grenadiers.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2020, 17:23 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Noobs and trolls aside, the general consensus is that the Tiger in its current state is not worth investing in. I don't see anything wrong with that consensus nor do I think some huge buff is needed. I think a slight buff in performance or a shift to a command tank role for both Ost and OKW variants would turn it into a viable choice in the meta.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2020, 20:04 PMachpawel

This test would make so much more sense if the same test was conducted for IS2, Pershing, HE sherman, etc. and repeated a few times. This way it seems more of an rng luck and rather misinformative.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 04:49 AMMMX

it's all been done before by several people (most famously by tightrope), but if you really want to exclude rng to the point that these tests become somewhat reliable you'd have to up the number of repetitions from 'a few' times to 'a couple hundred times' at least. that's not gonna happen, unless someone has the time and energy to spend literal days on collecting this kind of data in-game.
imho, theoretical calculations, as done for example by Hannibal or myself, can fill this gap nicely, but that doesn't mean videos like the one posted by aerafield have no value - especially if they are used to reinforce an argument.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2020, 14:04 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Repeat the test with a Panzer IV.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2020, 14:44 PMaerafield

I'm sure their AI level is the same.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 06:49 AMachpawel

I wish SB compared it to an HE Sherman, could be interesting.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 06:49 AMachpawel

I wish SB compared it to an HE Sherman, could be interesting.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 07:46 AMMr Carmine

I dont think you can compare the 2. The tiger is more durable does not need to swith rounds to excell in either ai or at and has less utility.

Imo the tiger still is a safe bet over a p4 or panther. Just not as safe anymore. It still has about panther level at on its main gun next to p4 reload time and good ai as well. Add its durability on top of that.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 08:13 AMDarkpiatre

If I remember someone compare pershing and HE sherman, and another compare Pershing and Tiger, you can join it easy but I don't know where it was post.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 08:22 AMachpawel

Of course I'm aware of the differences. Yet I feel such comparisons would be so cool. Then you would probably have to compare against different infantry squads and cover. IMO impossible to actually do because of how time consuming and painstaking it would be. I feel tightrope is the only one to actually try that. Still probably not enough data. I guess at least a dozen of people should do that testing different settings (range, cover, attack ground shots, different infantry squads, and many more variables - pintle, no pintle to name just a few).

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 08:30 AMachpawel

Tightrope tested all heavies against infantry squads after the patch (vs cons and volks) I think.

Jump back to quoted post27 Jul 2020, 18:33 PMKronosaur0s

Vaccum Tiger shooting freely against 3 squads (1 clumd up in the side of the tiger, and 2 in no cover), medium range with no threats to it from TDs.. what are you trying to prove man. Of course those 3 squads are gonna be taken down lol

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 11:59 AMaerafield

there has been people who claimed their Tiger was shooting a lot of shots against inf (blobs) yet the Tiger got 0 or 1 kills. These and other people basically claimed the Tiger has no anti inf anymore, which obviously isnt the case.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 11:59 AMaerafield

there has been people who claimed their Tiger was shooting a lot of shots against inf (blobs) yet the Tiger got 0 or 1 kills. These and other people basically claimed the Tiger has no anti inf anymore, which obviously isnt the case. So either these people are exaggerating af or they constantly picked engagements like "longrange Tiger vs inf behind a map-trench cover or behind elevation" where it would be ridiculous to expect model drops.


And what on earth would the addition of TDs showcase here? Of course you have to back out if multiple Jacksons are shooting at you but whats the point? An ISU-152 is also useless against inf when 3 panthers charge towards it... except that the ISU-152 isn't useless against inf.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 12:22 PMGachiGasm

From what I get using it and your video in this thread backing it up a bit. Main tiger AI damage comes from MG and AOE.

It cant kill inf strate of the bat if its a full HP squad, if its a not a direct hit, but it can harrass it damage and eventually kill it. When squad is damaged, tiger provide reliable AI.

Its a honestly good design in general. Thing is compare to Pesrhing\IS-2\ISU\KV-2\HE Sherman\KT which are just strate off wiping and killing models, Tiger might feel kinda meh.

Thats why tiger AI looks poor.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 11:16 AMKatitof

How many times he repeated it?
2?
3?

His results aren't what I'd call reliable if all of the testing is what is on his movies, because his number of repeats is not even enough for error margin alone, much less a reliable source of data.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 11:59 AMaerafield

there has been people who claimed their Tiger was shooting a lot of shots against inf (blobs) yet the Tiger got 0 or 1 kills.