Tiger nerf

Do you want it to be able to do this again? And why?

Heavy meta was awful for the game

hes talking about long games, keeping the tiger alive for along time ofc, its going to have so many kills. If the tiger cant do that in long games then whats the point in going for it. i fully agree heavies needed a nerf, but out of all of them they gave the harshest nerfs to the tiger + keep in mind the tiger was also slightly bugged too

IMO it is more appealing to play and micro 1 big boy than swarming your opponent with numerous tank. But again, the nerf of the Tiger was for the 1vs1 "Heavy meta" (and probably the OKW Tiger) and didn't take into account other mode where a big chunck of viable Ostheer commanders rely on it. Having for the SU to play ISU and the Ostheer to play Elephant isn't really fun.

hes talking about long games, keeping the tiger alive for along time ofc, its going to have so many kills. If the tiger cant do that in long games then whats the point in going for it. i fully agree heavies needed a nerf, but out of all of them they gave the harshest nerfs to the tiger + keep in mind the tiger was also slightly bugged too

I know what he's talking about, problem was it was way too easy to get those 90 kills. It wasn't uncommon at all, and it should be. Getting that many should require a lot of skill and it didn't at all before the nerf

It's not that 90 kills is too much no matter what, it's that it was way too easy for anyone to pull that off

Maybe one could redesign all these heavy/super heavy tank and make them have lower base stats but superior vet bonuses.

That would redact form their shock value but reward good unit preservation.


For instance if one lower the base armor of KT lets to 300 but got 5% armor for each vet level. That would allowed the penetration of allied TD to be reduce and a vetted KT to have similar armor once fully vetted.

(One would probably have to lower the XP value of the unit).

Heavies need to be impactful, we are talking about unique expensive tank with cooldown. The problem in 1vs1 was that they arrived way too early, overshadowing every other tank and blocking playstyles/other commanders. Increasing their CP beyond 14 if needed should be the solution, and not nerfing their capabilities.

The problem in 1vs1 was that they arrived way too early, overshadowing every other tank and blocking playstyles/other commanders. Increasing their CP beyond 14 if needed should be the solution, and not nerfing their capabilities.

That's incorrect. The average time a heavy was deployed as the first tank in 1v1s was 14-15 CPs (I gathered some data). They didn't arrive too early, they were simply so good that everyone stalled for them regardless of their timing. And 12 CPs is already pushing their time window for teamgames because anything higher than that means they are more likely to go up against a large amount of highly vetted tank destroyers, which was one of primary reasons heavies weren't used much when they were 13 CPs.

That's incorrect. The average time a heavy was deployed as the first tank in 1v1s was 14-15 CPs (I gathered some data). They didn't arrive too early, they were simply so good that everyone stalled for them regardless of their timing. And 12 CPs is already pushing their time window for teamgames because anything higher than that means they are more likely to go up against a large amount of highly vetted tank destroyers, which was one of primary reasons heavies weren't used much when they were 13 CPs.

Well i don't understand the nerf of CP+Stats in that case.

It would also be nice if you people stopped ignoring AT part of tiger, which is best in game out of all limited generalists.

If you want AI specialist, tiger certainly isn't one.

The problem is, for the price of a Tiger, you can have 2 Stug 3 which are better AT, and by far.

Well i don't understand the nerf of CP+Stats in that case.

CPs were nerfed because people felt they did arrive too early in teamgames, where it was often possible to get them as soon as they unlocked at 9 CPs. But increasing the CPs alone (up to 12CPs which was considered the maximum before they'd lose their timing window in teamgames) wouldn't have done anything for 1v1 and 2v2 where CP timing wasn't an issue, so they got some minor performance nerfs as well. Which in my opinion people are completely blowing out of the water. Heavies are still excellent, they just are not one unit armies anymore. They are still a very good and reliable way to round off a late game army.

The problem is, for the price of a Tiger, you can have 2 Stug 3 which are better AT, and by far.

That's quite irrelevant, the Tiger's AT performance wasn't changed. It's still one of the best AT vehicles in the game with veterancy, with DPM only second to the Tiger II iirc. The new turret traverse made it even better (scatter nerf was mostly negligible in regards to AT since it already has incredibly high accuracy). A (vetted) Tiger is significantly better at fighting heavy vehicles.

A properly supported Tiger is still a very good unit that brings both great AI and AT to the table and on top of that it has a lot more staying power than medium vehicles.

Well i don't understand the nerf of CP+Stats in that case.

Because that's the AVERAGE.
You could still push for a 15-20 min heavy tank.

CPs were nerfed because people felt they did arrive too early in teamgames, where it was often possible to get them as soon as they unlocked at 9 CPs. But increasing the CPs alone wouldn't have cut it for 1v1 and 2v2 where CP timing wasn't an issue, so they got some minor performance nerfs as well. Which in my opinion people are completely blowing out of the water. Heavies are still excellent, they just are not one unit armies anymore (expecting a Tiger to casually get 90 kills).



That's quite irrelevant, the Tiger's AT performance wasn't changed. It's still one of the best AT vehicles in the game with veterancy, with DPM only second to the Tiger II iirc. The new turret traverse made it even better (scatter nerf was mostly negligible in regards to AT since it already has incredibly high accuracy).

A properly supported Tiger is still a very good unit that brings both great AI and AT to the table and on top of that it has a lot more staying power than medium vehicles.

The goal of taking a Tiger over 2 Stug 3 is to have so AI and AT at the price of mobility. But since it has not enough AI and can be out maneuver by 2 medium at the time it hit the field. It has now to many drawback for pretty much nothing.

I have not seen a Tiger in a 1v1 or 2v2 since the patch.

The Tiger was never intended to perform like it did last patch. Its one hit-kill aoe radius was bugged allowing it to snipe full squads at range.

I have not seen a Tiger in a 1v1 or 2v2 since the patch.

Since we can conclude absolutely anything from what we have seen from the tournament, did we see a tiger?

The Tiger was never intended to perform like it did last patch. Its one hit-kill aoe radius was bugged allowing it to snipe full squads at range.

I think no one argues that bug fixing the tiger was the wrong choice.

However also getting rid of this scatter bonus at VET 2, the panzer commander and the CP increase, was maybe a bit too much of an overall package, considering how late he arrives now, and how long it takes to vet him up.

Also about the wiping at squads at full range, ISU says Hi.

Also about the wiping at squads at full range, ISU says Hi.

ISU doesn't have the AT performance of a tiger, and should really only be used for AI.

i would argue against that

the ISU can almost be used as a SU-85 in terms of AT, since it long range allows him to harass both tanks and infantry and a usually safe distance, its the very main reason most ppl get a JT or elefant mainly because its extremly hard to deal with an ISU otherwise

ISU doesn't have the AT performance of a tiger, and should really only be used for AI.

Seems both Tiger and ISU have 200 pen far.

Seems both Tiger and ISU have 200 pen far.

But in the time ISU will take one shot that will likely miss, Tiger will do 3.

You are better off with desperate SU-76 then ISU if you need actual AT.