Winter balance mod 2020 V1.3

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 12:00 PMKlement Pikhtura

It would be nice to see toning down of "Mechanized Support" (guards + ISU) and "Jaeger Armor" (elephant with a scope) doctrines

Mechanized support have 'mark targer' on top of the bombing strike. So it can nuke both armor and arty.
Jaeger armor have recon on top of having spotting scopes and bombing strike, which it can use against allied arty and emplacements. You have a lot of armor? No problem I have elephant with a scope.
You have arty? No problem i have recon with bombing strike. It is kind of excessive.

Particularly these 2 doctrines are extremely toxic in team games and should not have a lot of A+ abilities in their arsenal.

TLDR: I think arty should counter long range heavies, but currently such doctrines have bombing strikes to deal with it and some of them even have recon on top of that.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 12:00 PMKlement Pikhtura

It would be nice to see toning down of "Mechanized Support" (guards + ISU) and "Jaeger Armor" (elephant with a scope) doctrines

Mechanized support have 'mark targer' on top of the bombing strike. So it can nuke both armor and arty.
Jaeger armor have recon on top of having spotting scopes and bombing strike, which it can use against allied arty and emplacements. You have a lot of armor? No problem I have elephant with a scope.
You have arty? No problem i have recon with bombing strike. It is kind of excessive.

Particularly these 2 doctrines are extremely toxic in team games and should not have a lot of A+ abilities in their arsenal.

TLDR: I think arty should counter long range heavies, but currently such doctrines have bombing strikes to deal with it and some of them even have recon on top of that.

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2020, 22:31 PMT.R. Stormjäger

Think about it this way: If a slight buff to a non-meta commander turns it into a faction crutch, what's the real issue here? The commander or the faction?

My opinion is that Mobile Defense will be niche, but usable, which is a good thing.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 23:11 PMClarity

Keep in mind that the 25% capture rate buff at Tier 4 will also stack with Counterattack Tactics in this commander. Plus Assault Grenadiers get a capture rate buff when they get their 6th man that will stack with this. Assault and Hold in German Infantry also will stack. So this could become a problem.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 23:11 PMClarity

Keep in mind that the 25% capture rate buff at Tier 4 will also stack with Counterattack Tactics in this commander. Plus Assault Grenadiers get a capture rate buff when they get their 6th man that will stack with this. Assault and Hold in German Infantry also will stack. So this could become a problem.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 23:49 PMVipper

Think cap change might need some additional testing.

As for doctrinal abilities those can simply be caped if the combined effect is too much or/and replaced with another bonus.

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2020, 22:59 PMLeo251

It is simple. If ally fanboys dont want the cap speed buff, then add a 5th men to every axis squad, to increase the survability in the late game stages. Every ally squad has 5, 6 or 7 models.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 01:45 AMSupport Sapper

Getting pio to vet 3 is not easy, tho.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2020, 03:10 AMShadowLinkX37

Few people been talking about the panther and it’s accuracy issues even with veterancy. Just realized that the medium buff of target size will nerf this against the panther which the panther doesn’t currently need. Please give the panther veterancy some kind of accuracy buff so it isn’t missing shots at 5 range. It’s absurd.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2020, 03:10 AMShadowLinkX37

Few people been talking about the panther and it’s accuracy issues even with veterancy. Just realized that the medium buff of target size will nerf this against the panther which the panther doesn’t currently need. Please give the panther veterancy some kind of accuracy buff so it isn’t missing shots at 5 range. It’s absurd.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2020, 03:10 AMShadowLinkX37

Few people been talking about the panther and it’s accuracy issues even with veterancy. Just realized that the medium buff of target size will nerf this against the panther which the panther doesn’t currently need. Please give the panther veterancy some kind of accuracy buff so it isn’t missing shots at 5 range. It’s absurd.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 12:11 PMVipper

Generalist Medium Tanks
Clad to see the suggestions of not simply removing the scatter but replacing with something else was implemented.

In order to make generalist medium tanks more viable in the current meta, their durability is being increased by lowering their target size, making them more difficult to hit.

These changes should reduce the chance to get hit by 7-10% on medium to far range - ex: an 88% chance to get hit becomes an 80% chance.

The changes will not apply to Tank Destroyers and specialist vehicles based on a medium tank chassis. Units like the Sherman Firefly and Sherman 105mm will remain the same due to their role.

Panzer IV, Panzer IV Command Tank, and Panzer IV J

Target size from 22 to 20

Again I vary pleased to see that there is an attempt to make medium tank perform better. On the other hand I am not sure if this change will actually be helpful in meaningful way.

Part of the problem is not that generally medium tank are not performing adequately but that TDs can damage them (both hit and penetrate) with very high probability even from max range especially when vetted.

So imo the problem has more to do with accuracy of TDs and less with target size of vehicles.

Here are some numbers of Chance to hit with a natural hit not counting collision hits (range and probability)

SU-85 30/90% 60/80%
Su-85 vet 2 30/118% 60/104%

M36 30/90% 60/70%
M36 vet 2 30/118% 60/92%

FF 45/143% 60/88%
FF vet 3 30/143% 60/144%

Note that practical probability of scoring a hit is higher due to collision.

So imo one has to check the accuracy of TDs and their accuracy vet bonuses and if there is an issue with "super heavy tanks" they could get a target size increase.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2020, 16:58 PMHannibal

I think Shadow meant that the Panther becomes worse now, relatively to the unit it's supposed to counter.
Your post refers to how Allied TDs counter Axis mediums.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2020, 17:06 PMVipper

My post demonstrates how the lower target size does not bring the desired result.

And my point is that instead of (only) lowering the size of mediums that affect all weapons one should be lowing the accuracy of TDs...