Raketens are too good

In 1v1, you're basically not allowed to use stock mediums against OKW. Its already difficult to use stock mediums vs OKW P4, however, the raketens have the RoF of the USF at gun and basically the penetration of a pak (only 10 less) and now have almost the same range with an extra crewman and retreat. There's little u can do to counter a raketen. I'd say it's at least as survivable as the Zis now. I think a slight pen nerf is in order

M1 fires at least 80% faster. I'm not sure what you're smoking dude. It's not even somewhat close.

The strength of the raketen is that it can creep forward and be used more aggressively than other AT guns due to retreat ability. The downside is that they can very easily be stolen if decrewed while other AT guns just get destroyed or might even still remain there when decrewed.

Rak crewmen die many times faster due to lack of gun shield + shorter range + clumping because of the smaller gun, so raks bleed a ton more manpower than other AT guns and are far more prone to being wiped.

The rak also has a slow ass projectile which results in it not being able to score scatter-collision hits like other AT guns can. The rak has a low firing angle which makes it the worst AT gun to use whenever there's an ant hill or a small twig.

Of all the cancerous things in OKW - G43 blobs, Falls, OKW Tiger with artillery, you literally had to pick a non-factor to discuss.

The rak basically made a transition from "useless except for cheese" to a decent AT gun. I guess people were too spoilt and too used to OKW not having an AT gun, and now that it actually fulfills that role people are shocked. 70% of my games this patch have been with Allies and raketens haven't been an issue or concern in a single one of them.

While true. Rak have insane vet bonus which makes them really really strong late games. Maybe we should drop its vet bonuses somewhat.

Reload times

Raketenwerfer

Vet 0: 3.8-4.3
Vet 5: 1.93 - 2.18

M1 AT-gun

Vet 0: 2.1-2.4
Vet 3: 1.61 -1.84

Those numbers are useless without including wind up / wind down.

Those numbers are useless without including wind up / wind down.

They are not useless

If you want to include everything then here we go

USF M1 ATG

Delays
Ready aim time near
0.13
Ready aim time mid
0.13
Ready aim time far
0.13
Fire aim time near
0.13
Fire aim time mid
0.13
Fire aim time far
0.13
Cooldown time near
0
Cooldown time mid
0
Cooldown time far
0
Wind up
0.3
Wind down
1.5

Raketenwerfer

Delays
Ready aim time near
0.13
Ready aim time mid
0.13
Ready aim time far
0.13
Fire aim time near
0.25 - 0.38
Fire aim time mid
0.25 - 0.38
Fire aim time far
0.25 - 0.38
Cooldown time near
0
Cooldown time mid
0
Cooldown time far
0
Wind up
0
Wind down
0.5

ROF

M1 vet0 4.3 vet3 3.8
RW Vet0 5.0 vet3 4.0

Replay pls

ROF

M1 vet0 4.3 vet3 3.8
RW Vet0 5.0 vet3 4.0

Thank you

ROF

M1 vet0 4.3 vet3 3.8
RW Vet0 5.0 vet3 4.0

RW insane vet bonus.
Nerf that shit.
Vet3 should be 4.5 if scaling was fair
At 4.0 is unfair buff to axis late game yet again

RW insane vet bonus.
Nerf that shit.
Vet3 should be 4.5 if scaling was fair
At 4.0 is unfair buff to axis late game yet again

Vet bonuses zis/RW:
Unlocks the "Tracking" ability//Unlocks the "Camouflage" ability.

+30% rotation speed. //+25% penetration.
+30% reload speed. //+25% reload speed.

+20% reload speed. //For first shot, fired out of camouflage:+100000 penetration +25% damage.
+30% penetration.
+6.25% range of the "Light Artillery Barrage" ability.



vet4 // +15% maximum speed.
vet5 //+10% reload speed.

I personally do not see "insane" vet bonus. I personally would redesign them but that is different story.

Imo what RW need is a change in camo mechanism. The current one is not good at all.

It requires unneeded micro and leads to unwanted behavior.

The unit should respond to move order when in camo and simply breaking the camo.

The unit should respond to move order when in camo and simply breaking the camo.

Yeah, I don't understand why it acts the way it does currently either. It is very annoying if you click a move or attack order on a RW in a heated battle and they just stand still and do nothing because unlike any other camouflaged unit you need to turn cloak off first. Very weird and unintuitive.

Yeah, I don't understand why it acts the way it does currently either. It is very annoying if you click a move or attack order on a RW in a heated battle and they just stand still and do nothing because unlike any other camouflaged unit you need to turn cloak off first. Very weird and unintuitive.

The extra issue is that it "remembers" the move order so if for any reason it gets detected it starts moving...

The extra issue is that it "remembers" the move order so if for any reason it gets detected it starts moving...

What about passive vet when stationary at vet 1? Fixes most of the issues. Only thing is rotating counts as moving... but that would be minor compared to the benifits

What about passive vet when stationary at vet 1? Fixes most of the issues. Only thing is rotating counts as moving... but that would be minor compared to the benifits

There many different solutions and being passive is one of them, the point is the current is not player friendly

It should have the highest pen of all AT guns, because historically it could pen anything the allies had iirc. It's the only latewar AT gun after all.

The raketenwerfer is literally a Panzershrek on wheels. No difference besides the carriage, which one could argue made it more accurate at range and easier to load. It also entered service in 1943, only one year after the 6pdr/M1 anti tank gun used by UKF and USF respectively.

If my tank is backing up with engine damage I would like to stop the rak in its tracks, not hope that I can do enough damage to kill it fast enough. It depends on the situation

It all depends, as far as I know suppression only affects ROF so if your tank is a 1-2 shot (and there are 1-2 Raketens) then it's dead anyway. And without suppression HMGs deal full DPS against a 1 target size crew (which is a lot of DPS) which can kill the gunner(s) very quickly which also stops it from firing (and moving). So the net effects of suppression vs no suppression are probably similar in the end.

As long as there are vehicles that can suppress on the move the RW has no reason to be able to be suppressed.

The extra issue is that it "remembers" the move order so if for any reason it gets detected it starts moving...

Oh wow. That's really special.
However I think the current 'don't move while in camo' comes from the idea that the Rak should be able to rotate while in Camo. If a playrr had to click it there would also be small kateral movements which would break it.
That was afaik the reasoning behind this, not sure what costs less micro and provides more overall benefits though.

Oh wow. That's really special.
However I think the current 'don't move while in camo' comes from the idea that the Rak should be able to rotate while in Camo. If a playrr had to click it there would also be small kateral movements which would break it.
That was afaik the reasoning behind this, not sure what costs less micro and provides more overall benefits though.

Actually there is little reason that there 2 different "camo" mechanism for ATGs...

It all depends, as far as I know suppression only affects ROF so if your tank is a 1-2 shot (and there are 1-2 Raketens) then it's dead anyway. And without suppression HMGs deal full DPS against a 1 target size crew (which is a lot of DPS) which can kill the gunner(s) very quickly which also stops it from firing (and moving). So the net effects of suppression vs no suppression are probably similar in the end.

Yeah I'm mostly going for halting it's movement. Cause my MG needs to keep it in the cone to kill it, whereas suppression keeps it there by force

I certainly thought for a while that it was also reducing accuracy but clearly that's not the case

It just seems inconsistent though. Im pretty sure it's the only retreating unit that can't be suppressed? Not including AT guns retreating from propaganda