Su76: Any chance for it to be looked out?

Currently the unit its plagued with issues and has no role on the meta.

It a fuel unit designed to counter vehicles, but it lacks the damage of the Zis while having a low HP pool and armor only enough to protect it from small arms fire. They removed the free barrages which was one of its redeeming qualities.

By design, AT units are designed as a stop gap against enemies that have out teched you, but the Su76 can only work (On paper, because I've yet to see someone using them to some effect) in groups. One its not enough.

Also, the combination of frailty and low damage makes it unfit for a meta where units deal high damage and have enourmous HP pools.

Any chance for it to be looked upon?

AT wise it's fine. It will have more space to be used once every game is not heavy vs heavy.

On the other hand, there's really no point in investing fuel in it, when you can just get the Zis gun for similar results.

The main draw of the unit was the free barrage. But we know that free barrage + spam was cancer to play against.

I liked the idea of turning it into a Stug-E type of unit with 2 types of munition by removing the barrage. The range should be small around the 35/40 range.

It's a ZiS gun on tracks so you could make it literally that.

Copy over the ZiS gun's stats (160 damage, slightly slower rate of fire), and slap a little extra manpower on it.

Could do a global cooldown on the barrage. Kinda clunky but still fixes the problem with masses su76 nukes.

Could do a global cooldown on the barrage. Kinda clunky but still fixes the problem with masses su76 nukes.

You are still paying the muni now. Unless you meant it to be free.

Reminder demo from tightrope

44:33m mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCZntDLfOA

For 35 muni at 60 range and 6 shots with small aoe. It is efficiently deadly utility.

SU76 is pretty good at vet. Anything with 60 range is very strong backup.
Imo SU76 is clearly in a better spot than Stug, especially for team games 2v2 and above.

Reminder demo from tightrope

44:33m mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHCZntDLfOA

For 35 muni at 60 range and 6 shots with small aoe. It is efficiently deadly utility.

SU76 is pretty good at vet. Anything with 60 range is very strong backup.
Imo SU76 is clearly in a better spot than Stug, especially for team games 2v2 and above.

I almost never see SU-76 in 1v1/2v2 and they are a rare sight in team games. The Stug is used far more than the SU-76 espically in team games

I almost never see SU-76 in 1v1/2v2 and they are a rare sight in team games. The Stug is used far more than the SU-76 espically in team games

And to be honest, as a 3v3 4v4 player. I have not seen any su76 for a long time( like seriously very long time). However, Stug spam is still a thing, and a couple of weeks ago, I just turned a game around just because of massively spamming stugs.

I almost never see SU-76 in 1v1/2v2 and they are a rare sight in team games. The Stug is used far more than the SU-76 espically in team games

Because Sov can go to SU85 easily.
Just because SU76 is not used, is not because it is bad.

Likewise more Stugs dont mean it is better. In fact, it is Wehr T4 is bad.
I rather go T3 with Ostwind+Stug to Tiger. Or 2 P4 to Tiger.

On record, i still standby SU76 is in a clearly better spot than Stug.

Because Sov can go to SU85 easily.
Just because SU76 is not used, is not because it is bad.

Likewise more Stugs dont mean it is better. In fact, it is Wehr T4 is bad.
I rather go T3 with Ostwind+Stug to Tiger. Or 2 P4 to Tiger.

On record, i still standby SU76 is in a clearly better spot than Stug.

Here is how the counter loop happens in 4v4. Allies TDs counter every german tanks. And every german TD counter every allies TDs. So just like what you said, I would always prefer to build ATG + T70 and goes to T4 directly. However, in 3v3 and 4v4, things don't really go like what you said. People play OST would always skip T3 to T4 and then back tech to T3 if Allies started to spam TDs. Yet, for the soviets, it is not quite the case because there is no obvious reason for anyone to build SU76 in any given time.

At this point, SU-76 is just much more expensive, worse, more mobile ZiS gun.

It has nothing going for it over ZiS gun therefore its pointless to use it.

Free barrage was its quirk that made it appealing over ZiS and SU-85, but once that got cost equal to ZiS barrage, only reason to use it was removed.

70 fuel for worse ZiS is just not worth it at all. It needs to excel at something over ZiS and mobility is not worth it.

One of the reason SU-76 is that T2 has become cheaper and there is little reason not to build T1 and T2 and because T-70 is OP.

One of the reason SU-76 is that T2 has become cheaper and there is little reason not to build T1 and T2 and because T-70 is OP.

"AI vehicle is OP therefore AT vehicle is not used"
Amazingballs logic there.
Care to show us how your T-70 handles these P4s?

Also, T1 and T2 had their current cost when SU-76 was spammed most games, literally nothing MEANINGFUL changed here since T1 and T2 cost was lowered from 40 and 50 fuel.

I almost never see SU-76 in 1v1/2v2 and they are a rare sight in team games. The Stug is used far more than the SU-76 espically in team games

Well, you see stugs cus paks get f***ed by infantry and armor(the thing they counter) and is only real choice in dealing with tanks. Where as zis is cheaper and does the job way better than su76.

"AI vehicle is OP therefore AT vehicle is not used"
Amazingballs logic there.
Care to show us how your T-70 handles these P4s?

Also, T1 and T2 had their current cost when SU-76 was spammed most games, literally nothing MEANINGFUL changed here since T1 and T2 cost was lowered from 40 and 50 fuel.

Ok I will take the bait, since I am not sure if you are ignorant or trolling.

If one has fuel to invest, T-70 is far better investment than building a SU-76, it much cheaper fuel wise to build T2 and get a zis. It is as simple as that.

A shock AI vehicle has limited time window and it needs to perform well enough to exploit that time window before med armor arrives and rolls over it.

An AT vehicles do not have that disadvantage, because they are MEANT to go up against medium armor as well and perform decently enough for their cost.

That's why Puma and to a limited degree AEC can engage medium armor in faction unique way while still providing some very minor AI support free of any additional resource tax.

SU-76 however, while performing its AT role well, with barrage being nerfed and costing muni now doesn't do anything in a unique way over ZiS gun, therefore its pointless to get it over ZiS gun as its only a weaker ZiS gun with much higher cost.

And if its better to backtech to T2 and get ATG instead, that only further proves my point that this 70 fuel vehicle is NOT worth it, even if you have to spend 500+ manpower to get alternative that can be easily lost to a single squad with automatic weapons.

I like how you tried to go up against my argument and ended up reinforcing it with further example signifying the underperformance of current SU-76.

...

I like how you tried to go up against my argument and ended up reinforcing it with further example signifying the underperformance of current SU-76.

Actually this is what I said but with a main difference, the unit does not UP there simply better options.

That is problem of the changes to Soviet tech and not the unit.

At this point, SU-76 is just much more expensive, worse, more mobile ZiS gun.

It has nothing going for it over ZiS gun therefore its pointless to use it.

Free barrage was its quirk that made it appealing over ZiS and SU-85, but once that got cost equal to ZiS barrage, only reason to use it was removed.

70 fuel for worse ZiS is just not worth it at all. It needs to excel at something over ZiS and mobility is not worth it.

Pretty much this.

Although I should point out that it's a 120 damage ZiS gun.

It might well be worth it if it were literally a ZiS gun on tracks.

I think the SU76 has a efficiency problem.
Against OST you don't buy a 75 FU unit to counter a 222 or 251. Against OKW you might use it against a Luchs. However, the SU76 is still more expensive. Also the T70 can scare a Luchs away if necessary and brings very good AI to the table. Against a Puma it's not worth building it, because it can be killed too easily if it gets caught out of position, while it itself can't dive the Puma.

So what is left for the SU76 in it's primary role as AT unit? Osteind. Would eork alright, but just get a T34 instead. Against StuG it does not work that well. Against P4 it's too unreliable so you'd need another AT unit anyway. It's not worth delaying your own tank that heavily.

So the only role that is left is if you're massivlely behind on furl, your opponent get's a tank out on the field and you can't afford teching to T4. Then your only hope is to get the SU76 and hope that you can somehow kill the P4 to narrow thee gap