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Winter balance (1/2020) feedback - UKF

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Support Sapper
9 Feb 2020, 14:22 PM
#181
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 13:59 PMVipper

Part of the problem. The units was moved 2.5 earlier and become available for 200 manpower less.

It simply does not need to be that strong. Imo tt should be closer Ass IS and have extra utility (anti garrison) with an incendiary grenade (VG style). Then it could become T0 unit.

That would help vs garrison and countering Ass. gren.


i just did some test and find out that at vet 0, officer can barely win stumpio with just 1 model left and alway lose to pg (officer cloe in in the open). Comebine that with the test vs axis mainline, i can confidently say that the unit's power lever when out of the box is completely fine, unles you consider the fact that ukf have an limited to only 1 unit that can have a fair fight with stumpio at vet 0 is "that strong".
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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Vipper
9 Feb 2020, 14:40 PM
#182
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 14:22 PMSupport Sapper


i just did some test and find out that at vet 0, officer can barely win stumpio with just 1 model left and alway lose to pg (officer cloe in in the open). Comebine that with the test vs axis mainline, i can confidently say that the unit's power lever when out of the box is completely fine, unles you consider the fact that ukf have an limited to only 1 unit that can have a fair fight with stumpio at vet 0 is "that strong".

I provided my personal feeback and you did yours. Have little to add.

Well Tighrope seem to agree with me that the units is a "weapon".


Imo the unit would allot better if it was more about utility than brute force.

(About ST, imo it would be allot better if the ST was not the starting unit for OKW. I would personally experiment with an MP 40 VG and swapping the MP-40 with the ST44.)
:)
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SuperHansFan
9 Feb 2020, 16:03 PM
#183
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Posts: 833

Tightrope also said the officer is a little weak early game. It does seem a bit strange the officer gets destroyed by pgrens early but can easily fight them vet3 and even stand a chance vs vet obers.

So early-mid game buff with late game RA nerf? This would be logical. But also we have to remember it's limited to one.

If I had it my way they would have Thompson's with pgren stats and cloned stats in everything but with the abilities. 5 man pegged back to anvil and recon plane with hammer.

Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is :hansREKT:
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Support Sapper
9 Feb 2020, 16:23 PM
#184
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 14:40 PMVipper

I provided my personal feeback and you did yours. Have little to add.




Yeah, fair point. Anyway, my pleasure to discuss.
My mod with a bunch of new stuffs

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LoopDloop
9 Feb 2020, 18:07 PM
#185
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IMO officer is really weak early game considering it is 320mp and 35 to reinforce. Reinforce cost should probably be 30 at most and possibly a cheaper call-in cost (like 300).

On the flip side, if it still gets commando brens, it's going to be OP in lategame (although you can only get one). I think it'd be interesting if they gave it a non-transferrable thompson with vet (maybe vet3) on the officer model like USF officers but disallow the squad from picking up brens or PIATs from weapon racks (but leave the weapon slots for dropped weapons on the field).
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Support Sapper
9 Feb 2020, 18:37 PM
#186
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I realy like officer model to have a thompson, event if it just only visually. Silenced sten is very unsuitable with the unit new role.
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Sander93
9 Feb 2020, 19:44 PM
#187
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 12:52 PMblvckdream
And the UKF Officer seems incredibly OP it can charge in against vet 5 Obers from max-range and win. Wtf is this? On top of that the incredibly strong recon plane it's too much.


Out of 16 tests (with Obers being in various degrees of cover) the Officer lost 11 times.



Obers in the open (which is the only thing that Tightrope tested) can lose even to semi-elite units like Cavalry Riflemen charging in. That doesn't say much.
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Vipper
9 Feb 2020, 19:48 PM
#188
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:44 PMSander93


Out of 16 tests (with Obers being in various degrees of cover) the Officer lost 11 times.

Obers in the open (which is the only thing that Tightrope tested) can lose even to Cavalry Riflemen charging in. That doesn't say much.

The test was charging thru open ground again some of the highest DPS units...In addition they did not even use the light gammon bomb.

The patch takes a CP 3 units and moves to CP 0.5 while reducing the cost of getting about 200 manpower, while greatly buffing its vet bonuses.

PLS no more units with brute force add utility instead.
:)
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SeductiveCardbordBox
9 Feb 2020, 19:52 PM
#189
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:48 PMVipper

The test was charging thru open ground again some of the highest DPS units...In addition they did not even use the light gammon bomb.

The patch takes a CP 3 units and moves to CP 0.5 while reducing the cost of getting about 200 manpower, while greatly buffing its vet bonuses.

PLS no more units with brute force add utility instead.


UKF is already drowning in utility

What it doesn't have is a stock CQC squad, and being a CQC squad requires them to have some actual punch, not just abilities.

They're limited to one, it's not like you can start making your army out of airlanding officers.
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Sander93
9 Feb 2020, 19:53 PM
#190
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:48 PMVipper
In addition they did not even use the light gammon bomb.


...in addition the Obers did not even use either their Frangible. Or their bundled grenade. Or even both. Or even their suppressive fire ability.


My point is that these tests are very flawed in nature and are highly indicative at best but never give a realistic picture. We might adjust the Officer to be a tiny bit better at vet 0 and a bit worse at vet 3 (already discussed plans for that earlier), but currently the vet 3 Officer is not "incredibly OP and can charge into Obers and win 10/10 times". That's a gross exaggeration based on a mere 3 very RNG dependant tests. Doing tests with a bigger (but still very small) sample size gives very different results.
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Vipper
9 Feb 2020, 20:44 PM
#191
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:52 PMSeductiveCardbordBox


UKF is already drowning in utility

Not really. They have trouble vs garrison a role both the officer and the Wasp should be able to cover better. (see suggestions)

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:52 PMSeductiveCardbordBox

What it doesn't have is a stock CQC squad, and being a CQC squad requires them to have some actual punch, not just abilities.

They're limited to one, it's not like you can start making your army out of airlanding officers.

Creating a hero unit to cover the QCQ department is bad solution. If they they need help in that department Ro.E. should become better. There is no reason for unit designed to an "elite" infatry to become stock and arrive so early.
:)
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Vipper
9 Feb 2020, 20:47 PM
#192
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:53 PMSander93

...
My point is that these tests are very flawed in nature and are highly indicative at best but never give a realistic picture.

Then test more in game, I am pretty sure the problem will become visible...

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:53 PMSander93

We might adjust the Officer to be a tiny bit better at vet 0 and a bit worse at vet 3 (already discussed plans for that earlier),...

You should redesign the officer instead last thing UKF need is more fire power. As an anti garrison it would much more useful and could become available earlier.
:)
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Unit G17
9 Feb 2020, 20:50 PM
#193
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Not sure if someone already mentioned it, but give smoke barrage to the sniper too.
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distrofio
9 Feb 2020, 22:00 PM
#194
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 20:50 PMUnit G17
Not sure if someone already mentioned it, but give smoke barrage to the sniper too.

Really? What is this patch doing omg. Snipers with smoke is both, weird and prone to abuses
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Unit G17
9 Feb 2020, 22:59 PM
#195
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 22:00 PMdistrofio

Really? What is this patch doing omg. Snipers with smoke is both, weird and prone to abuses


I mean, british snipers are like having the pyrotechnics upgrade by default, they already could throw a signal smoke for the base arty. If someone commits into a sniper instead of more sections, one of which could be a pyro squad, then I don't think it would be a notable buff for the sniper. This would be the same smoke barrage as the one the pyro IS uses and thus shares the global cooldown too.
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LoopDloop
9 Feb 2020, 23:06 PM
#196
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 20:44 PMVipper

Not really. They have trouble vs garrison a role both the officer and the Wasp should be able to cover better. (see suggestions)


Creating a hero unit to cover the QCQ department is bad solution. If they they need help in that department Ro.E. should become better. There is no reason for unit designed to an "elite" infatry to become stock and arrive so early.

Pgrens say hello. IMO they should be at about that power level with some adjustment made for the fact that they come earlier. Instead they're limited to one with weapons that are only supposed to be effective with camouflage ambushes and subsequently are only effective with camouflage ambushes (read: their guns are kinda bad), but can also be upgraded with super brens from racks, which IMO should not be a thing because they may be too powerful lategame but kind of bad early game, and also weirdly limited to one. One CQC squad for an entire faction isn't really enough, especially on certain maps.

Also 35mp reinforce cost is too high. Probably should be like 32 or 34 at the most.
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Vipper
9 Feb 2020, 23:16 PM
#197
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 23:06 PMLoopDloop

Pgrens say hello. IMO they should be at about that power level with some adjustment made for the fact that they come earlier. Instead they're limited to one with weapons that are only supposed to be effective with camouflage ambushes and subsequently are only effective with camouflage ambushes (read: their guns are kinda bad), but can also be upgraded with super brens from racks, which IMO should not be a thing because they may be too powerful lategame but kind of bad early game, and also weirdly limited to one. One CQC squad for an entire faction isn't really enough, especially on certain maps.

Also 35mp reinforce cost is too high. Probably should be like 32 or 34 at the most.

Does your post have anything to do with my post that you have quoted?

And for the record calling commando stens "bad" is simply false they are an extremely good smg with over 14 DPS at range 10. Simply test the unit yourself or check tightropes video.
:)
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Chocoboknight88
10 Feb 2020, 02:52 AM
#198
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Posts: 393

Anyone else having issues with getting the Airlanding Officer to actually use the Brens he picks up? I had a Section of them down to two men, had them buy the Brens then reinforced them. Yet nobody was holding a Bren Gun after that and there was no icon to say they had them either.

I know it says in the Bug List that it was fixed but it doesn't seem that way. :/

One more thing, I feel that the speed booster on the Airlanding Officer doesn't last long enough. At least 10 Seconds would be better to make for a halfway decent flank.
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Vipper
10 Feb 2020, 12:38 PM
#199
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2020, 19:44 PMSander93


Out of 16 tests (with Obers being in various degrees of cover) the Officer lost 11 times...


Problem is both with design and the performance:
Offices like artillery officer, sturm officer, JLI command, commissar arrive later and are designed more for utility and less DPS.

There is little reason for the current implementation of assault officer.
:)
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Katitof
10 Feb 2020, 12:42 PM
#200
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2020, 12:38 PMVipper


Problem is both with design and the performance:
Offices like artillery officer, sturm officer, JLI command, commissar arrive later and are designed more for utility and less DPS.

There is little reason for the current implementation of assault officer.


Literally CQC DPS is the purpose of the unit as brits have none and are suffering for it enough for the need to give them one arrived now.

You can't keep nerfing crutches without giving something else to lean on when you're operating on faction crippled by default by original design.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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