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Are Ass Grens too good??

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Jae For Jett
16 Jan 2020, 07:38 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 04:17 AMZeroZeroNi

No, I stopped respecting him caus he called me a liar. So i really didn't give a sht after that point.

You posted absolutely no evidence whatsoever. You also described a methodology that others pointed out is flawed.

He posted screenshots (which do not show his testing, but do show the supposed results) that suggest your claim is wrong.

Looking at this objectively, why WOULD anyone choose to believe you over him?

Besides that, I would have been somewhat skeptical that they beat commandos. Assault grens have neither more DPS nor more durability.
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ZeroZeroNi
16 Jan 2020, 08:41 AM
#42
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Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 07:38 AMJae For Jett

You posted absolutely no evidence whatsoever. You also described a methodology that others pointed out is flawed.

He posted screenshots (which do not show his testing, but do show the supposed results) that suggest your claim is wrong.

Looking at this objectively, why WOULD anyone choose to believe you over him?

Besides that, I would have been somewhat skeptical that they beat commandos. Assault grens have neither more DPS nor more durability.

But the 6-man ass grens would have 1 ass gren model that can gang up on 1 of the commando model. 2 ass grens probs have more dps than a single commando model.
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blvckdream
16 Jan 2020, 11:21 AM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 08:41 AMZeroZeroNi

But the 6-man ass grens would have 1 ass gren model that can gang up on 1 of the commando model. 2 ass grens probs have more dps than a single commando model.


Dude just stop.
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Sander93
16 Jan 2020, 11:59 AM
#44
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Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 08:41 AMZeroZeroNi
But the 6-man ass grens would have 1 ass gren model that can gang up on 1 of the commando model. 2 ass grens probs have more dps than a single commando model.


DPS at range 10
Assgrens 49,25
Assgrens (6) 59,1
Commandos 70,665

Effective health:
Assgrens 421
Assgrens (6) 532
Commandos 556


This is disregarding Commandos' ambush advantage and their grenade advantage. Vet bonuses are slightly in favor of the Assgrens but there isn't a single scenario in which they'd reliably win.

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ZeroZeroNi
16 Jan 2020, 12:08 PM
#45
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 11:59 AMSander93


DPS at range 10
Assgrens 49,25
Assgrens (6) 59,1
Commandos 70,665

Effective health:
Assgrens 421
Assgrens (6) 532
Commandos 556


This is disregarding Commandos' ambush advantage and their grenade advantage. Vet bonuses are slightly in favor of the Assgrens but there isn't a single scenario in which they'd reliably win.


It's actually around 10.6 dps per model(post patch) for ass grens making 6-man: 63.6
Commandos are 16.5 dps per model so total would be 82.5

However you have to realize one thing: 2*10.6*0.72 > 16.5*0.9025 as such, commandos models gets ganged up on pretty fast and loose model. So they eventually loose.
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Katitof
16 Jan 2020, 12:10 PM
#46
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 12:08 PMZeroZeroNi

It's actually around 10.6 dps per model(post patch) for ass grens making 6-man: 63.6
Commandos are 16.5 dps per model so total would be 82.5

However you have to realize one thing: 2*10.6*0.72 > 16.5*0.9025 as such, commandos models gets ganged up on pretty fast and loose model. So they eventually loose.

Umm, you are schooling on correct units stats a guy who balanced them.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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ZeroZeroNi
16 Jan 2020, 12:14 PM
#47
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Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 12:10 PMKatitof

Umm, you are schooling on correct units stats a guy who balanced them.

So every one on the balance team knows absolutely every thing about the game. I'm sorry the 14.1 dps on commandos was changed fair amount of time ago. It's his fault to be in the balance team and not remember/know this, not mine. And everyone should be open to being corrected.
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Katitof
16 Jan 2020, 12:26 PM
#48
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Ohhh boy, this is pure gold.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Sander93
16 Jan 2020, 13:27 PM
#49
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Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 12:08 PMZeroZeroNi
However you have to realize one thing: 2*10.6*0.72 > 16.5*0.9025 as such, commandos models gets ganged up on pretty fast and loose model. So they eventually loose.


Automatic weapons don't work like that. They spread out their damage and don't focus down models one by one.


Commandos win 19/20 times against 6 men Assault Grenadiers.
With overwhelming results in most engagements too.




jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 12:08 PMZeroZeroNi
It's actually around 10.6 dps per model(post patch) for ass grens making 6-man: 63.6
Commandos are 16.5 dps per model so total would be 82.5

The difference for the reload changes is so small I didn't bother to look it up. Assgren DPS could very well be this but the difference is so small it doesn't matter in the comparison. I did indeed forget to mention that I used the old DPs, though.

On Commandos DPS I trust that Cruzz' stats are correct. If they aren't then good catch, but it only puts the comparison even more into Commandos' favor.
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Musti
16 Jan 2020, 14:32 PM
#50
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Posts: 203

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 12:26 PMKatitof
Ohhh boy, this is pure gold.

When a rank 5-million "never played and don't have UKF" lectures a mod team member on balance, you know you are in THE best timeline.
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
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agustinveinte
16 Jan 2020, 14:50 PM
#51
avatar of agustinveinte

Posts: 38

I think they are better than they were before, but I do not get good results using them as assault force, they are supposed to flank and clear support weapons but it is always the same, 2 models are lost before arriving which leaves them Useless, besides using the grenades it takes long enough for the squadrons to avoid them, ironically they work much better using them defensively, defending the MG from the enemy flank, fulfilling this function are better than the grenadiers common for their low damage, the Allies simply ignore the grenadier squad and eliminate mg. This in the early game then they become almost useless and most likely end up losing the squad to the tanks or blobs.
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ZeroZeroNi
16 Jan 2020, 16:12 PM
#52
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 13:27 PMSander93


Automatic weapons don't work like that. They spread out their damage and don't focus down models one by one.


Commandos win 19/20 times against 6 men Assault Grenadiers.
With overwhelming results in most engagements too.





The difference for the reload changes is so small I didn't bother to look it up. Assgren DPS could very well be this but the difference is so small it doesn't matter in the comparison. I did indeed forget to mention that I used the old DPs, though.

On Commandos DPS I trust that Cruzz' stats are correct. If they aren't then good catch, but it only puts the comparison even more into Commandos' favor.

Ok, Could you describe testing methodology: I like to be more accurate(correct is the term here) in future.
Question(man I have so many of these now): Would not in the initial burst 2 of ass gren models focus on 1 model of the commandos and how the search algorithm of the models work?? does it not target the the model closest to it. Also is each burst focused on a target or each bullet in a burst switches targets??
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ZeroZeroNi
16 Jan 2020, 16:13 PM
#53
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 13:27 PMSander93


Automatic weapons don't work like that. They spread out their damage and don't focus down models one by one.


Commandos win 19/20 times against 6 men Assault Grenadiers.
With overwhelming results in most engagements too.





The difference for the reload changes is so small I didn't bother to look it up. Assgren DPS could very well be this but the difference is so small it doesn't matter in the comparison. I did indeed forget to mention that I used the old DPs, though.

On Commandos DPS I trust that Cruzz' stats are correct. If they aren't then good catch, but it only puts the comparison even more into Commandos' favor.

Ok, Could you describe testing methodology: I like to be more accurate(correct is the term here) in future.
Question(man I have so many of these now): Would not in the initial burst 2 of ass gren models focus on 1 model of the commandos and how the search algorithm of the models work?? does it not target the the model closest to it. Also is each burst focused on a target or each bullet in a burst switches targets??
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T.R. Stormjäger
16 Jan 2020, 16:20 PM
#54
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Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Spend less time testing DPS and more time playing so you can have fun and improve.
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ZeroZeroNi
16 Jan 2020, 16:34 PM
#55
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 16:20 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Spend less time testing DPS and more time playing so you can have fun and improve.
Mechanics are cool. why would I not learn and obsess over them???? And I already have fun in the game dealing with mechanics is another type of fun. Try it you may like it.
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LoopDloop
16 Jan 2020, 18:49 PM
#56
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Posts: 3053

I think assgrens are in a good spot. They definitely feel like a potent unit but they're not OP or anything and it's not like they can beat more expensive allied CQC elites (for good reason) in a straight fight, so allies have plenty of counters.
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BlueKnight
16 Jan 2020, 19:51 PM
#57
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Posts: 320

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2020, 10:52 AMStug life
each line is 5 range ........

Each yellow line is actually 10 range afaik.
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Stug life
16 Jan 2020, 21:19 PM
#58
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 19:51 PMBlueKnight

Each yellow line is actually 10 range afaik.
.................. it's the orange ones, u can literally see that u can fit a Soviet sandbag between the lines , which are 5 range
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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distrofio
17 Jan 2020, 18:17 PM
#59
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2020, 04:17 AMZeroZeroNi

No, I stopped respecting him caus he called me a liar. So i really didn't give a sht after that point.

It takes that little to trigger someone? Literally, on the internet? Man I want to go back to the 90's where people knew how to stand corrected and had more self respect

PD: if your tests were wrong, you should take responsibility, otherwise you are just fine spreading fake facts and that is serious trolling
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KiwiBirb
17 Jan 2020, 19:53 PM
#60
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Posts: 789

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 18:29 PMT.R. Stormjäger


Yeah this method doesn’t work. Changing squad owner in range of an enemy squad messes badly with the combat. Your results are all wrong,


He just said he changed his method to charging :facepalm:
Most of my ideas are probably bad, - but I try and share lots of them

and maybe some of them will be good an improve the game
One can hope
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