Maxim Sustained Fire

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:09 PMSander93

That's not an easy alternative at all.

My main issue is that Maxims need a 6 men crew for the deathloop issue and are therefor very durable, while also being available right at the start of a game (unlike the M2HB and DshK, that can have better stats to compensate for the deathloop instead because they come a lot later), while also having a faster reposition time than the other T0 HMGs, which means it can't have good stock stats because then 2-3 Maxims would quite easily shut OKW down completely on corridor or urban maps (like Red Ball Express or Lienne Forest) right from the start because OKW does not have anything in T0 that could counter it (USF had a T0 mortar added to deal with early HMG 42s for a reason) besides flanking/overwhelming with infantry, which isn't possible in corridors or against garrisons.

Besides that, there's always the risk of enabling the infamous Maxim spam again, which is something I'm sure everyone would like to avoid.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:22 PMT.R. Stormjäger

There are ways around that. What if you increased Maxim cost to 280, doubled its build time and narrowed its cone of fire a bit? That way spamming them would be very difficult, especially at the start, and you could then improve the Maxim as a machine gun to do its job.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:29 PMthedarkarmadillo

3 types. You forgot those that lived through it but won't let ptsd get in the way of balance. The game has changed A LOT in the last 5 years. I wish there was a mod that had all the original stats and design so we can be reminded how far the game has come. Just because the maxim used to be oppressive doesn't mean it's not underwhelming now and has room to improve. Obviously we don't want maxim spam to return but using maxim spam as justification for no improvement ever is silly.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:36 PMCrecer13

Maybe then it’s easier to remove Maxim? This is a rather ridiculous proposal, Make the unit more expensive and reduce the characteristics. No, Maxim should cost as much as machine guns of other factions and have similar performance for the same price.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:31 PMSeductiveCardbordBox

A decent maxim would do little to nothing more than what MG42 spam can do to UKF, SU or USF.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:40 PMaerafield

I was talking about significant buffs, and he clearly stated that he wants the maxim suppression stats to be on the level of all the other MGs.... which would make it completely OP again

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:41 PMthedarkarmadillo

I think I'd rather make it function and balance its price and build time based on that performance (taking into account the large crew) than try and make it fit into the price point and siny not function properly as a result

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:43 PMSander93

OKW on the other hand has nothing at T0 except infantry spam. On maps where they can't flank

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:48 PMCrecer13

And I think that the cost directly affects the timing in the game. Make Maxim "balanced" and for example a 300mp machine gun. I will never build it: because for a lower price other fractions will have a machine gun with similar characteristics or even better, and some also have a machine gun in T0. Build T2 + hypotical 300mp? No thanks, I'm going to T1.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:36 PMCrecer13

Maybe then it’s easier to remove Maxim? This is a rather ridiculous proposal, Make the unit more expensive and reduce the characteristics. No, Maxim should cost as much as machine guns of other factions and have similar performance for the same price.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:50 PMthedarkarmadillo

That's not entirely true. They could walk at it, head on and throw a flame nade which will force it to retreat if not induce a death loop. Works more often than not...

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 13:50 PMthedarkarmadillo

That's not entirely true. They could walk at it, head on and throw a flame nade which will force it to retreat if not induce a death loop. Works more often than not...

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 14:24 PMSander93

Only sending multiple squads at once might work if the Soviet player isn't quick enough to re-target, but usually there's a Maxim covering a Maxim, so that often leads nowhere. With 6 men durability, Maxims can usually reposition after taking a flame grenade with still 4-5 models left anyway. It's far from a guaranteed wipe or retreat.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 15:19 PMSerrith

If there is a maxim covering a maxim in the early game then the soviet player has forfeited map control elsewhere.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 16:04 PMSander93

If you read carefully, you'll see that I was talking exclusively about teamgames corridor maps, such as Red Ball Express, where there are only a handful of frontline territories to fight over and where forfeiting map control is not a thing.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 16:03 PMAerohank

The T2 tech is not affordable early game and unlike T1 there is no unit in it powerful enough to reclaim the map control that you lost by getting early tech. Making the maxim even more expensive and take longer to build makes the unit useless in the 1 game mode where it is currently somewhat worth getting.

Jump back to quoted post11 Dec 2019, 16:31 PMSerrith

This was not specified in the quoted post, but even so, its not as if double MG42s doesn't give brits a hard time in a corridor either.