The recent Infantry Sections nerf

Okw used to be the biggest offender in "free" stuff. Medics repair station and point denail included with tech. No extra cost no upgrading needed just tech. Now of course the dont just get them. Usf crews medic and retreat point at least require micro and are quite vunerable so their is higher risk involved, this balances out the benefits mostly.
Something okw did not have to worry about mostly if at all.

Free might not be the right term for axis upgrades. But they do pretty much get a bargain. Its all included. You get your upgrade with natural tech, you will always get acces to them. It does not delay tech however slightly that may be. You also get abilities such as riflenade inc nade next to new units.

So the stg,s for volks not being as strong as 2 bars seems fair.

so is healing not important ?

stg can't be doubled up like bar

and are u saying major is + ambulance is a worse retreat point than fhq ? u know u can move it where u want right ? and it heals in area ?

"it does not delay tech" lol didn't know BP and truck had instant build time, u could literally call the okw truck flame nade unlock , u don't need a genius here, having tech divided for the same cost is an advantage not a disadvantage u must be pretty biased to not see that, especially considering in COH2 u can rush a lot of things , example if ukf wanted to rush n AEC it could skip side tech , okw or osther don't have such choice , the upgrade are bundled with tech and are not discounted : aec + tier 1 45 fuel
okw 60 + -10 starting fuel (so 70) for luch or puma and ost 60 IF they skip tier 1 so most likely 70 fuel for 222, "BuT i WaNt WaPoNS" then get them it's 15 fuel so u get 60 fuel cost "BuT i WaNt NaDeS" get them too it's 10 fuel so we reach 70 fuel, loook at that u get the light vehicle weapon upgrade and tech unit for 70 fuel SAME as osther or okw but guess who has the option to get it earlier at 45 fuel ?

This is why I only brought up 1 weapon slot sections or each weapon taking up both weapon slots (again, not sure if even this is possible) as options.

This is very much possible. You can directly edit the slot item size and/or the slots the squads have.

so is healing not important ?

stg can't be doubled up like bar

and are u saying major is + ambulance is a worse retreat point than fhq ? u know u can move it where u want right ? and it heals in area ?

OKW has other healing options

Stgs also don't require an entirely separate tech purchase just to get them.

BGHQ is a superior FHQ 75% of the time thanks to durability alone. The only time it's conceivably worse is if you're losing badly and getting shelled constantly by something like double pack howitzers or a ml-20. Major+Ambulance FRP is rarely viable outside of team games.

OKW has other healing options

Stgs also don't require an entirely separate tech purchase just to get them.

BGHQ is a superior FHQ 75% of the time thanks to durability alone. The only time it's conceivably worse is if you're losing badly and getting shelled constantly by something like double pack howitzers or a ml-20. Major+Ambulance FRP is rarely viable outside of team games.

hey don't u know everyone should use the medic crates for healing only ? thank u for showing ur bias, why not remove at guns for soviet ? i mean there is prts it's another anti tank option , yes u have to pay a lot to sue the satchel and lot of micro but who cares

technically yes as u need trucks to get them

moving > non moving are we really discussing this ? and losing a bghq does not cost only 10 fuel and some man power depending on if u retreat, it cost u 600 mp and 55 fuel to set it up again

hey don't u know everyone should use the medic crates for healing only ? thank u for showing ur bias, why not remove at guns for soviet ? i mean there is prts it's another anti tank option , yes u have to pay a lot to sue the satchel and lot of micro but who cares

technically yes as u need trucks to get them

moving > non moving are we really discussing this ? and losing a bghq does not cost only 10 fuel and some man power depending on if u retreat, it cost u 600 mp and 55 fuel to set it up again

1. The argument carmine made was the medics weren't as important with OKW. It's a factual statement, something the medic crates prove, and you're thusly wrong to make it equivalent to the USF Ambulance or soviet medics. I'm sorry if you were too biased to see that.

2. But you needed to get trucks anyway in order to produce anything but your t0 units (not even counting the MG34). It's not a side-tech, that's the whole point, and exactly why Stg44s always arrive before weapon racks...

3. And it's a lot harder to lose a BGHQ than a 160HP Ambulance and 240 combined HP Major squad. Again, part of the point you missed.

I'll let you think that over. If you still think I'm biased for making factual observations it might be best if we don't post about this subject for a while.

No one outside of 3v3 and 4v4 uses the Battlegroup as forward retreat, unless we're talking about four digit rank match ups.

No one outside of 3v3 and 4v4 uses the Battlegroup as forward retreat, unless we're talking about four digit rank match ups.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I spectated a game last year with you playing USF vs OKW with the OKW player doing exactly that, and I'm pretty sure you're not rank 1000.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I spectated a game last year with you playing USF vs OKW with the OKW player doing exactly that, and I'm pretty sure you're not rank 1000.

Someone did it a year ago =/= this is something you should be doing as OKW

1. The argument carmine made was the medics weren't as important with OKW. It's a factual statement, something the medic crates prove, and you're thusly wrong to make it equivalent to the USF Ambulance or soviet medics. I'm sorry if you were too biased to see that.

2. But you needed to get trucks anyway in order to produce anything but your t0 units (not even counting the MG34). It's not a side-tech, that's the whole point, and exactly why Stg44s always arrive before weapon racks...

3. And it's a lot harder to lose a BGHQ than a 160HP Ambulance and 240 combined HP Major squad. Again, part of the point you missed.

I'll let you think that over. If you still think I'm biased for making factual observations it might be best if we don't post about this subject for a while.

medic aren't important for one as much as at gun aren't important for SU , u have a more costly alternative that demands more micro , it's just ur hypocrisy that blinds u and shows that anything with cross is better (axis free stuff !11!1)
I hope I do know that weapon rack can arrive before stg right ? If u mean that we don't see a lot of people doing that u are only proving my point that u rush other things instead (M20 t70 arc etc) giving them more options

Ur argument falls down to , is it harder to lose an emplacement or a LV + squad , we could pros why they don't use emplacements maybe they could explain u why

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I spectated a game last year with you playing USF vs OKW with the OKW player doing exactly that, and I'm pretty sure you're not rank 1000.

My sole point was this: Once you reach the higher ranks in 1v1 and 2v2 people will know how to counter a forward battlegroup. At that point, not only does it cease to be effective, but it becomes detrimental for you. That's why I just don't feel it's a valid strategy.

medic aren't important for one as much as at gun aren't important for SU , u have a more costly alternative that demands more micro , it's just ur hypocrisy that blinds u and shows that anything with cross is better (axis free stuff !11!1)
I hope I do know that weapon rack can arrive before stg right ? If u mean that we don't see a lot of people doing that u are only proving my point that u rush other things instead (M20 t70 arc etc) giving them more options

Ur argument falls down to , is it harder to lose an emplacement or a LV + squad , we could pros why they don't use emplacements maybe they could explain u why

the crates have AOE heals. so you get 3 aoe heals... its a quite good healing measure, you just need to know when to use it. if you got beat up in a push and took lost of damage but no loses, you should probably use it. if you barley escaped a wipe and made it home with 1 model... probably not.

it wont be your main healing forever, but it can definitely let you make due. and late game many okw infantry self heal as well.
okw has more healing options any anyone stock...

so is healing not important ?

stg can't be doubled up like bar

and are u saying major is + ambulance is a worse retreat point than fhq ? u know u can move it where u want right ? and it heals in area ?

"it does not delay tech" lol didn't know BP and truck had instant build time, u could literally call the okw truck flame nade unlock , u don't need a genius here, having tech divided for the same cost is an advantage not a disadvantage u must be pretty biased to not see that, especially considering in COH2 u can rush a lot of things , example if ukf wanted to rush n AEC it could skip side tech , okw or osther don't have such choice , the upgrade are bundled with tech and are not discounted : aec + tier 1 45 fuel
okw 60 + -10 starting fuel (so 70) for luch or puma and ost 60 IF they skip tier 1 so most likely 70 fuel for 222, "BuT i WaNt WaPoNS" then get them it's 15 fuel so u get 60 fuel cost "BuT i WaNt NaDeS" get them too it's 10 fuel so we reach 70 fuel, loook at that u get the light vehicle weapon upgrade and tech unit for 70 fuel SAME as osther or okw but guess who has the option to get it earlier at 45 fuel ?

Wtf does bf and truck build time to do with delaying tech? You still get acces to every upgrade.

Please find where i said medics are not important.

Volks get 2 stg,s genius.

Major ambu foreard retreat point isent worse then okw fwrd rtrt point. While mobile it is easier to destroy.

When you getvsomething earlier because certain thing are in side tech can work in your favor. It also open you up to other stuff the enemy gets. So you say its an advantidge is just opinion.

And I apologize if I was antagonistic or hostile towards you. Its always appreciated when people outline their own proposals instead of complaining about something. Just because I have to take an opposing stance against a proposal doesnt mean the effort wasnt appreciated.

Anyway, the issue with reworking the bren to be limited to one but keeping the vickers as it is now is that I dont believe you would have a way to prevent sections from getting their one bren from racks, then picking up a vickers too. My understanding is that 1919s are currently limited to one by having the rack itself check if the squad has a 1919 already, and not allowing a squad to pick up another if it does. Because of this, riflemen squads can pick up one 1919 from racks, then still pick up another off of the ground if one of your other 1919 squads dropped one. This matters for ukf because the halftrack drops vickers onto the ground, making it as if they were any other dropped weapon. This means you cannot (to my understanding) make special pick up conditions for vickers+bren combos. This is why I only brought up 1 weapon slot sections or each weapon taking up both weapon slots (again, not sure if even this is possible) as options.

Last time I checked, it's currently entirely possible for rifleman to take one m1919 and a BAR.

If we were buffing the Bren but limiting it to one, and leaving the Vickers more or less as is (or even making it cheaper but worse?), I don't see the problem? Sections and Rifles can both take one heavy MG and a lighter one.

(The only thing I would be irked by is that the profiles should really be the other way around, and the Bren be closer to the BAR than an MG42, but... swapping the racks and halftrack is likely asking a lot)

Wtf does bf and truck build time to do with delaying tech? You still get acces to every upgrade.

Please find where i said medics are not important.

Volks get 2 stg,s genius.

Major ambu foreard retreat point isent worse then okw fwrd rtrt point. While mobile it is easier to destroy.

When you getvsomething earlier because certain thing are in side tech can work in your favor. It also open you up to other stuff the enemy gets. So you say its an advantidge is just opinion.

2 stg have worse DPS than a bar

Hey genius when u go to the store to buy something immagine if u could only buy it in pair
So u want 1 kg of pasta ? Nope u Need to pay for 2 , want 1l of soda ? Nope u Need to buy 2 , now immagine if u could choose to only get 1 for the same resources and time , what's better ?

2 stg have worse DPS than a bar

The fuck are you on about.

BAR dos goes from ~13 to ~4

STG dps goes from ~7.5 to ~2

Take a glance at the curves and they are very nearly on par between 10 and 20 range - BARs have a sharp close range drop off followed by a gentle decline, compared to the gradual decline of STGs

Not only are you talking bollocks but it's not even remotely related to the infantry section thread any more.

The fuck are you on about.

BAR dos goes from ~13 to ~4

STG dps goes from ~7.5 to ~2

Take a glance at the curves and they are very nearly on par between 10 and 20 range - BARs have a sharp close range drop off followed by a gentle decline, compared to the gradual decline of STGs

Not only are you talking bollocks but it's not even remotely related to the infantry section thread any more.

simple math, is it better 4 rifle + 1 bar or 3 rifle + 2 half a bar ?
I didn't bring out this discussion I simply said that axis does not get free weapon upgrade and pays like all other factions, but allied myth triggers too many people

btw i love the fact that bar is 13 dps while it's on the stats page 13.2 and stgs have 2 dps while it's 1.4 great rounding dude

adjusted with the extra rifle it's 20 dps short and 5.6 long for bar vs 15 short and 2.8 far (not 4) u pay the same 60 mun and total tech cost but 1 occupies 2 slot and can't be upgraded further

simple math, is it better 4 rifle + 1 bar or 3 rifle + 2 half a bar ?
I didn't bring out this discussion I simply said that axis does not get free weapon upgrade and pays like all other factions, but allied myth triggers too many people

btw i love the fact that bar is 13 dps while it's on the stats page 13.2 and stgs have 2 dps while it's 1.4 great rounding dude

adjusted with the extra rifle it's 20 dps short and 5.6 long for bar vs 15 short and 2.8 far (not 4) u pay the same 60 mun and total tech cost but 1 occupies 2 slot and can't be upgraded further

Care to include costs and utility factors as well or are we just gunna cherry pick combat stats? Rifles cost more and fight better, volks are cheaper and fight extremely well, but also can "deny cover and garrisons, build their own cover, melt team weapons and eventually self heal.

Also you don't pay the same tech, because weapon racks only unlock weapon racks while stgs unlock a slew of new units as well as snares. You pay exclusively for weapon racks just like you are paying exclusively for combat infantry when you get rifles. You are paying more AND paying for a single purpose unit ("points" all in 1 stat)

Granted you are correct that if you continue to stack resources onto rifles they get better than volks. Funny how additional manpower, munitions, fuel and support allow for such scaling innit?

cause stg unlock cost the same right ? didn't know tier 1 cost 15 fuel


nice try to deflect the point, i simply pointed out that 1) u rounded up and down to ur liking to show the stg were better than they actually are 2) stg occupies 2 weapon slot that means 1 less rifle 3) did u know bar can be equipped by RE that cost less but have literally the same stats for the bar (unlike let's say lmg 42 ostruppen) ? we are talking about weapons upgrade not the unit them self, by this logic the lmg 34 obers should be x3-4 times as better, as they cost much more both in tech, fuel, time to reach, munitions and mp

having the option to stack more resources to get better IS an advantage in it self, + the ability to freely equip on whatever unit u want it too

to put it simply here how it works: axis and allies pays the same total tech cost for the same toys
axis doesn't have a choice for them but pays in rates and (bp 1 unlocks most things but u have to pay for the rest in bp 2, same for trucks) get much less freedom and potential (unit have fixed upgrades and can't be double up)
allies have FREEDOM of choice ( ) and can pick the upgrades at any time they wants and have much more potential but do require to go back to base to equip them

BOTH have to side tech 1 is mandatory (trucks and BP) the other can choose (in the end both have to wait for the tech to finish aka truck, weapons unlocks) BOTH pays almost the same (255 vs 250 and 205 vs 200) for full tech tree and same for similar tech (luch and stuart will come at similar time even if u get weapons upgrade both 70 fuel , there are many other example like the AEC i made before , still 70 fuel with side techs)

the myth of "mUh AxiS FFRREEEEE uPgRaDes 1!!!!!!111" needs to stop

cause stg unlock cost the same right ? didn't know tier 1 cost 15 fuel

Last I checked, LMG unlock unlocked only LMGs. Since when does it unlock a WHOLE FUCKING TIER OF UNITS?
Axis weapon upgrades are time locked, not resource locked. Its delusional to think otherwise.

Last I checked, LMG unlock unlocked only LMGs. Since when does it unlock a WHOLE FUCKING TIER OF UNITS?
Axis weapon upgrades are time locked, not resource locked. Its delusional to think otherwise.

i see u literary skipped the last part of the post thank u kat