Jagdtiger is horrible

1 and 2 have nothing to do with the unit, like I said the ele cmdrs are better

Agreed on other 3, except maybe #4, I thought recent patch buffed tracking to be the same?

Its a trade-off though, Jagd has more armor and health, and a solid AI ability

222 is non-doctrinal and with vet spots well for Elefant even without spotting scopes.

Tracking speed was buffed but it's still below Elefant.

JT being decent on paper doesn't change the bad in-game performance.

Can you please learn to read? I never said it's unusable in 2v2. There are situations where calling in a JT can be ok but in 95% of games it's not worth it. If you think that makes the unit balanced, then ok. Up to you.

Regarding the dominance of JTs that you claim: I can not remember having seen even ONE dominating JT since the big heavy TD nerf (mainly 300 damage per shot reduction). And that is in hundreds of 2v2s that I played around rank 50-150. Not one. Elefant and ISU dominate many 2v2s and are used frequently.

Unless you want to meme you will always go for Tiger or even KT over JT. A combination of KT/Tiger+JP4+Stuka works well in late-game 2v2 meanwhile JT+P4+Stuka doesn't. As Ost you can use the Brummbär as an AI tank and keep the Ele behind it to protect it but OKW P4 can't fulfil that role.

I'm reading in between the lines
You said it would lose in a scenario that it should lose in and say that's a problem. Vetted enemy TDs plinking away at it should be threatening. If you feel the lineup supporting the JT is problematic why are you arguing about it losing while unsupported to units the support you are saying make the JT weak wouldn't do dick all against?

The JT is great in lane maps, as it always has SUPPORTING and being SUPPORTED. It's guaranteed to pen and hits like a truck. It can barrage weapon teams (I do think that needs a sizeable price decrease though) it makes it so enemy TDs can't just plink away at your other armour or your team mates armour and that's a big deal. Additionally the JT is competing with a number of GREAT exclusive vehicles, the KT, the command panther, the tiger and its even competing with a trash one - the sturmtiger. So it sometimes comes down to supporting army. The new tiger commander is one of the strongest commanders okw has knocking out most of their factional weaknesses--late snare, lack of recon, weak hand AT, lack of smoke, lack of off map AND you get a fucking tiger tank too! It's necessarily the unit is bad as there is a better commander.

I don't think it should have lost its range advantage over the elefant, it was seldom seen then and, even though the last game I played there was one, I don't expect it to be seen often still. As long as you can get fussies in the fantastic new commander that has everything I don't suppose anyone is going to pick fussies in a worse commander. Simple as that really.

222 is non-doctrinal and with vet spots well for Elefant even without spotting scopes.

Tracking speed was buffed but it's still below Elefant.

JT being decent on paper doesn't change the bad in-game performance.

A lot of the in-game performance comes down to the roster surrounding the unit, doc and non-doc, thats what im saying. Rather than being a problem with the elefant vs jagd themselves

The truth is: jgtiger is unused in total. You will only see them if the player want it to play or have the ideal moment to call it in and use it ( long open maps with the ideal army composition)

else: you don't see it.

And which enemy is dump enough to fight it head on head? in game modes you see it: teamgames....all enemys will stick togehter and rape you hard with cheese tactic like arty, call ins and other BS stuff

The truth is: jgtiger is unused in total. You will only see them if the player want it to play or have the ideal moment to call it in and use it ( long open maps with the ideal army composition)

else: you don't see it.

And which enemy is dump enough to fight it head on head? in game modes you see it: teamgames....all enemys will stick togehter and rape you hard with cheese tactic like arty, call ins and other BS stuff

Help! Unit up! It needs a combined effort of multiple players to counter! KRUPP STAHL was not so flimsy! It should need a combined effort of at least 6 players, owner included to counter, not only whole enemy team!

That's the level of your argument right here....

Help! Unit up! It needs a combined effort of multiple players to counter! KRUPP STAHL was not so flimsy! It should need a combined effort of at least 6 players, owner included to counter, not only whole enemy team!

That's the level of your argument right here....

for its cost: it`s to easy to counter it. Hell.. in most games i need only this: smoke,mother russia and satchels. noone can do anything against this... smoke deny supression and any dmg from any ressources and moither russia let srpint your penals into enemys lines without any reaction time and than u need only satchel the jgtiger away like its a super cheap unit...

for its cost: it`s to easy to counter it. Hell.. in most games i need only this: smoke,mother russia and satchels. noone can do anything against this... smoke deny supression and any dmg from any ressources and moither russia let srpint your penals into enemys lines without any reaction time and than u need only satchel the jgtiger away like its a super cheap unit...

All you need is combined arms, a special ability and a hard counter. JT definitely UP...

Main issue with JT is that you need to have a T4 on map to call it. That requirement should simply not be there.

I think nerfing the elefant is the best way to buff jagdtiger

Stop trying to use the Jagdtiger against its own counters (super long range lightly armoured tds). The Jagd is insane against soviet heavy armour and at walls because it can switch to HE rounds. If you're having trouble with medium armour (including td) spam, build your own cheaper, cost effective stugs and jagdpanzers. Just because you saved up fuel for a unit doesn't mean that you now 'win' any AT war.

What I didn't mention in the OP but find very annoying about the JT is that it can't even reliably kill two Allied TDs from the front. A pair of vet 1 Jacksons always beat it even if you just let them sit AFK in front of the JT. With the SU85 it is more RNG because they don't have 300+ penetration but still often not in favour of the JT.

Yes, I would expect an 800 manpower, 290 fuel and 60 muni investment in pure AT to beat a tank destroyer costing 720 manpower and 260 fuel that also has an ability to delete support weapons.

Stop trying to use the Jagdtiger against its own counters (super long range lightly armoured tds).

Well this is news. And here I always h3ard and thought that the super heavy TDs were actually counters to allied TDs in long range shootouts. Learn something new every day I guess.

Main issue with JT is that you need to have a T4 on map to call it. That requirement should simply not be there.

agreed. Built should be enough, no need for it to be active at the time

260 fuel and I dont think there's any tank you should be able to buy that suddenly allows you to ignore the importance of combined arms and planting mines

2 Jacksons is 30 more fuel btw, and it has no AI ability unlike the JagD. You also had no problem making the Jacksons spend extra muni on HVAP

I agree with the combined arms part

I would actually like to see its range lowered but it’s dps increased

Stop trying to use the Jagdtiger against its own counters (super long range lightly armoured tds). The Jagd is insane against soviet heavy armour and at walls because it can switch to HE rounds. If you're having trouble with medium armour (including td) spam, build your own cheaper, cost effective stugs and jagdpanzers. Just because you saved up fuel for a unit doesn't mean that you now 'win' any AT war.

this is nuts.... the core design of the Jt was exactly this... 2shot the lategame TD.
Years ago when TD`s were actualy glascannons and not super TD with lightspeed and lasercannons... it worked quite well but after so much buffs and powercreep. There is no need for the JT.
If u save up only for this u already lost the game. Its so slow that u have to be in perfect position to get some value of it. And praise god if ur enemy is not brain afk and have 2 medium Tanks to flank it.( idk how u want to set up mines against a 60TD maybe if push the enemy Team off the map)

Tell me how stugs will ever fight properly against Jacksons.. (T3 TD with no Turret and medium Speed...against the TD meta) u dont even see the Jacksons the rip u apart...


Here is the funny thing, the most expensive TD in the game cant fight properly for its coast and the allied fanboys came up with "muh play combiend arms" BUT when some said something about the holy grail(Jacksons)and that is not the only at option ... "muh... combiend arms? i never heard of that pokemon"

first i was thinking this is troll thread but now i see how people are desperate witout old jagiter win button.
And suprise me that vipper dont like call in's but for jagtiger he can make exception lol
But seriously I know nothing about 1vs1 but i think 4vs4 is now in good spot heavy tank destroyers are usefull but not op only arty can be still cancerus anyway dont buff jagtiger or u want delete 4vs4 again for alies

Not sure why you keep bringing up me and my personal preference. For your information I never said that "I don't like call ins".

the JT is horrible to use cause of the role it has and price, while u get what u pay what u get doesn't work in-game, reduce armor and HP increase speed and reduce price this should work for elephant too

something like

price to 190-220 fuel

armor to 350 hp to 960

better rotation and speed

hell u could even reduce the damage further to 240-280

like this it becomes viable in 1 vs 1 too

this is nuts.... the core design of the Jt was exactly this... 2shot the lategame TD.
Years ago when TD`s were actualy glascannons and not super TD with lightspeed and lasercannons... it worked quite well but after so much buffs and powercreep. There is no need for the JT.
If u save up only for this u already lost the game. Its so slow that u have to be in perfect position to get some value of it. And praise god if ur enemy is not brain afk and have 2 medium Tanks to flank it.( idk how u want to set up mines against a 60TD maybe if push the enemy Team off the map)

Tell me how stugs will ever fight properly against Jacksons.. (T3 TD with no Turret and medium Speed...against the TD meta) u dont even see the Jacksons the rip u apart...


Here is the funny thing, the most expensive TD in the game cant fight properly for its coast and the allied fanboys came up with "muh play combiend arms" BUT when some said something about the holy grail(Jacksons)and that is not the only at option ... "muh... combiend arms? i never heard of that pokemon"

If the design of the JT was actually to 2 shot TDs, it would have 20 more damage and about 300 less penetration. In reality, the Jagdtiger has the highest penetration in the game at 550. Combined with it's slow fire rate, this tells you it is designed to put holes in very big tanks.

The Jagdtiger fills a niche in the OKW lineup that is otherwise not great at killing high armour vehicles.
I agree that the unit is 'unnecessary' against the massed tank destroyers you're complaining about - so why make it better at performing this role as well?

Again, there is no more efficient unit you can build as OKW if you're up against KV1s, IS2, ISU, KV8, KV2 backed up with at guns. If you're not seeing very many of these, maybe don't bother building it and just take advantage of the other really good abilities in the commander.

Against USF or medium spam a Jagdpanzer is almost always a better option. Again, we're talking about 2v2 - there are almost always situations where you can get Stugs and Jagdpanzers into effective range against allied armour and they are CHEAPER and do MORE DPM because of their fire rate.

I don't think it is horrible, but it is more niche. Which is honestly just about where it should be. A good tank destroyed that with support can dominate the map but is susceptible to flanking.