In the heavy tank overhaul patch, heavy tanks got moved down to 9 CP.
The idea was this wouldn't affect 1v1 that much, but they'd be viable as shock units in team games as the opponent would have 4 fewer CPs of time to deploy and vet tank destroyers.
In practice, heavy tanks are often rushed as the first unit in 1v1, creating a similar problem to the one we had before where the other player has to rush a TD or their own heavy because meds can't deal with the heavy's armour. Luvnest's Soviet strategy in WC19 is a good example of this.
I can't speak for teamgames, but the patch has definitely succeeded at making them viable as non-call-ins with the tandem timing and firepower buffs.
Do you think 9 CP is working well for heavies, or is it too soon? If 9 CP is too soon, how far back would you push it?
Heavy Tank CP
13 Nov 2019, 13:00 PM
#1
Posts: 3260
13 Nov 2019, 13:20 PM
#2
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Increase CP by one and give them 1 minute build time?
13 Nov 2019, 13:51 PM
#3
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Super heavy tank come too early.
Imo CP should be increased
time to replace them should be increased either by having appearing after a time when called in or CD start after the unit being destroyed or by becoming build able and not instant call-in
Actually allowing powerful unit to enter the field early is imo a direction that is wrong and has been followed far much too long. It is time to move to the exact opposite direction.
That would increase the window of opportunity for units and increase built diversity.
Imo CP should be increased
time to replace them should be increased either by having appearing after a time when called in or CD start after the unit being destroyed or by becoming build able and not instant call-in
Actually allowing powerful unit to enter the field early is imo a direction that is wrong and has been followed far much too long. It is time to move to the exact opposite direction.
That would increase the window of opportunity for units and increase built diversity.
13 Nov 2019, 14:23 PM
#4
Posts: 818
The Kt and TA and Croc don't really seem to come to early.
The Pershing, IS-2 and Tiger all do. None of these require more fuel or manpower to unlock over a normal medium tank. (tiger is -40 mp and +10 fuel over a p4 if you get BP3 instead of a t3 building, but does come a good bit later if you build mediums first with the t3 followed by BP3).
I think the Pershing, IS-2 and Tiger need to be just a little more expensive to unlock giving more space for other units to do damage and also defeat them later if used properly.
To me it doesn't seem like making a player choose to float fuel and wait for the arbitrary timer that is Cp's is an intuitive solution. Players should be presented a discrete choice not told "wait this long".
Editlike3minslater: I think Cp's makes it easier to spam light vehicles into heavy tanks. Alternatively A tech cost increase would give medium vehicles more space to be effective so it depends on which counterplay strategy you want to make effective.
The Pershing, IS-2 and Tiger all do. None of these require more fuel or manpower to unlock over a normal medium tank. (tiger is -40 mp and +10 fuel over a p4 if you get BP3 instead of a t3 building, but does come a good bit later if you build mediums first with the t3 followed by BP3).
I think the Pershing, IS-2 and Tiger need to be just a little more expensive to unlock giving more space for other units to do damage and also defeat them later if used properly.
To me it doesn't seem like making a player choose to float fuel and wait for the arbitrary timer that is Cp's is an intuitive solution. Players should be presented a discrete choice not told "wait this long".
Editlike3minslater: I think Cp's makes it easier to spam light vehicles into heavy tanks. Alternatively A tech cost increase would give medium vehicles more space to be effective so it depends on which counterplay strategy you want to make effective.
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13 Nov 2019, 14:53 PM
#5
Posts: 3260
To me it doesn't seem like making a player choose to float fuel and wait for the arbitrary timer that is Cp's is an intuitive solution. Players should be presented a discrete choice not told "wait this long".
Editlike3minslater: I think Cp's makes it easier to spam light vehicles into heavy tanks. Alternatively A tech cost increase would give medium vehicles more space to be effective so it depends on which counterplay strategy you want to make effective.
The effect of high CPs on heavies in 1v1 is it allows the opponent to field two or three mediums before the heavy can be deployed.
Trying LVs into tech-tied CP 13 heavies would probably end badly because medium armour has a solid time window to do its thing and kill the lights.
13 Nov 2019, 15:07 PM
#6
Posts: 2358
I voted for 13+ CP with a considerable buff to all heavies, i want heavies to be worth.
Pershing and Tiger are the most affected/hurt with this perspective, they could have 2 CP lower than the rest.
Pershing and Tiger are the most affected/hurt with this perspective, they could have 2 CP lower than the rest.
13 Nov 2019, 15:18 PM
#7
Posts: 818
The effect of high CPs on heavies in 1v1 is it allows the opponent to field two or three mediums before the heavy can be deployed.
Trying LVs into tech-tied CP 13 heavies would probably end badly because medium armour has a solid time window to do its thing and kill the lights.
I think the Player will still be incentivized to get heavy tanks when the heavy tank will come out before a second medium tank and for equal or lesser cost. You only need 1 or 2 at guns to hold out during this gap if you aren't already ahead from light vehicles.
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13 Nov 2019, 16:17 PM
#8
Posts: 3260
I voted for 13+ CP with a considerable buff to all heavies, i want heavies to be worth.
Pershing and Tiger are the most affected/hurt with this perspective, they could have 2 CP lower than the rest.
I think they are now. They'd definitely function in 1v1 at 13 CPs.
The question is if they'd still function in teamgames, which was the reason they got bumped down to 9 CPs in the first place.
13 Nov 2019, 16:20 PM
#9
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Increase CP by one and give them 1 minute build time?
I'm not sure what CP they should be, but they should absolutely have a build timer
13 Nov 2019, 16:22 PM
#10
Posts: 3260
I'm not sure what CP they should be, but they should absolutely have a build timer
Perhaps not a build timer, but their ability goes on cooldown when the tank dies rather than when it's called in?
13 Nov 2019, 16:31 PM
#11
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Perhaps not a build timer, but their ability goes on cooldown when the tank dies rather than when it's called in?
I made a thread about this exact idea a few months ago. Unfortunately sander recently said it is not possible to implement
13 Nov 2019, 16:40 PM
#12
Posts: 591 | Subs: 1
Just put them in the HQ with a build timer, surely. Or does the limit of 1 mess up if you do?
13 Nov 2019, 16:45 PM
#13
Posts: 818
Just put them in the HQ with a build timer, surely. Or does the limit of 1 mess up if you do?
I'm pretty sure that works for captain, LT, Major
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13 Nov 2019, 17:11 PM
#14
Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3
Increase CP by one and give them 1 minute build time?
I think it is not possible to make a unit buildable from a structure AND give it a CP requirement. Or else this would have happened longer time ago already
13 Nov 2019, 19:16 PM
#15
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Push them back CP wise between what we had before and now.
The whole reason we haven't seen heavies pushed back is because they MIGHT be arriving too late with old CP count on teamgames. I'll rather found solutions to provide ways of acquiring CP on teamgames rather than having current 17//20 mins heavy tanks.
Make caches give around half CP point (from 0.25 to 0.5)
For OKW: make the retreat point and repair engineers to provide it instead for the moment (i suggested before in making the trucks behave as caches through a equal cost upgrade if deploy on a strategic point which is not already covered in cache).
Engineer/Medics: from 0 to 0.25
Retreat point: from 0 to 0.5
The whole reason we haven't seen heavies pushed back is because they MIGHT be arriving too late with old CP count on teamgames. I'll rather found solutions to provide ways of acquiring CP on teamgames rather than having current 17//20 mins heavy tanks.
Make caches give around half CP point (from 0.25 to 0.5)
For OKW: make the retreat point and repair engineers to provide it instead for the moment (i suggested before in making the trucks behave as caches through a equal cost upgrade if deploy on a strategic point which is not already covered in cache).
Engineer/Medics: from 0 to 0.25
Retreat point: from 0 to 0.5
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
13 Nov 2019, 19:53 PM
#16
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I made a thread about this exact idea a few months ago. Unfortunately sander recently said it is not possible to implement
Since then we've actually received some info about that from veteran modder Sneakeye, so this might actually be possible to implement next patch (we haven't tried yet).
13 Nov 2019, 20:55 PM
#17
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Since then we've actually received some info about that from veteran modder Sneakeye, so this might actually be possible to implement next patch (we haven't tried yet).
Oh sweet thatd be cool. I think I would prefer that over build timers as well
Shoutout to you guys though. Even if it doesn't work out, digging through the files that closely at all this late in the games life is awesome to see
13 Nov 2019, 21:04 PM
#18
Posts: 731
I think all heavy tank should balance with faction tech tree and build cost and cp
13 Nov 2019, 21:11 PM
#19
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Ehat is the big issue with making them buildable from Q? Is it really the CP requirements? If not, this seems the easiest and most straight forward solution to me.
Apart from that, I think something like 11-12 CP would probably be best. Force players to at least get a medium before you buy a heavy tank
Apart from that, I think something like 11-12 CP would probably be best. Force players to at least get a medium before you buy a heavy tank
13 Nov 2019, 21:35 PM
#20
Posts: 3260
Since then we've actually received some info about that from veteran modder Sneakeye, so this might actually be possible to implement next patch (we haven't tried yet).
What do you think is the latest viable timing for the current iteration of heavy tanks?
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