6 changes to improve Wehrmacht commanders thematically

Relief Infantry isn't on the chopping block because it's bad, Relief Infantry is on the chopping block because its high concept of "kill your soldiers on purpose to get more soldiers" is stupid.

I think the idea is more "your guys are going to die anyways, let's try and get something out of it"

Relief Infantry isn't on the chopping block because it's bad, Relief Infantry is on the chopping block because its high concept of "kill your soldiers on purpose to get more soldiers" is stupid.

What if... its "attack heavily defended territory and have replacement infantry if you took heavy loses"?

If you're using it and suiciding your units to trigger it, you're using it wrong.

Its supportive ability that makes you get something out of heavy push even if you failed, not something that makes you stand on your own bundle nades.

1. Relief Infantry being replaced by Osttruppen or an Osttruppen based squad. Currently the ability goes against the game's philosophy of trying to preserve your units.

2. Forward Retreat point of some sort in a doctrine, I don't really care how at this point, like the 251 having it, or a bunker/forward HQ, as long as they have it because it's a pain playing without one on a big map if you got infantry heavy. That's also the reason I go tank heavy with the Ost so I don't have to retreat my infantry all the way across half the map.

3. Additional repair options, I mean I like how they're trying to buff Ost's repairs but they're still currently the most limited out of all Armies in terms of repair options, out of their about 20 doctrines only about what, less than 5 have repairs options?

Meanwhile every 2nd or 3rd Soviet and UKF commander has crew repairs or something else.

Something like a repair station upgrade for their bunkers or a mobile repair and recovery vehicle like the 251 would be nice in more doctrines.

4. Speaking of Halftracks, the 250 should be standardized in my opinion.

No more battlegroup call-ins or mortar HTs, you get the ability to build an un-armed 250 in your mechanized building and from there you could upgrade it with an MG, a Mortar or turn it into a mobile ambulance. Would make the vehicle much more useful, unique and versatile instead of having 4 different versions of it across multiple commanders.

5. Fallschirmjägers in one of the Luftwaffe doctrines, I think they fit and they should be given a proper doctrine of their own but I guess shoving them in one of the 2 already existing commanders also works.

Here's one of my suggestions of a Luftwaffe Supply doctrine rework that includes them:



6. King Tiger in Mobile Defense doctrine. After the severe nerfs to the Osttruppen reserves, later Puma and now the Command Panzer IV the doctrine that was once viewed as the savor of the Ost has really been reduced to being pretty much absolutely useless and obsolete. So in my opinion giving it the KT might actually be a saving grace for it, maybe as a replacement for the Command Panzer IV?

That's just my own personal opinion of course.

Fallschirmjägers in one of the Luftwaffe doctrines...

I'd prefer to see something more like this:

1 CP Luftwaffe Ground Troops (Luftwaffe engineer unit that builds Heavy Fortifications)

3 CP Supply Drop Zone (same as Luftwaffe Supply and Close Air Support)

3 CP Fallschirmjaegers (equipped with MP40's with a single FG42 upgrade, more like the CoH1 version)

5 CP Luftwaffe Support Officer (like the All-Units version, has all air support options available)

8 CP PaK 43 Emplacement (instead of CoH1 FlaK88)

I'd prefer to see something more like this:

1 CP Luftwaffe Ground Troops (Luftwaffe engineer unit that builds Heavy Fortifications)

3 CP Supply Drop Zone (same as Luftwaffe Supply and Close Air Support)

3 CP Fallschirmjaegers (equipped with MP40's with a single FG42 upgrade, more like the CoH1 version)

5 CP Luftwaffe Support Officer (like the All-Units version, has all air support options available)

8 CP PaK 43 Emplacement (instead of CoH1 FlaK88)

That looks more like a good rework suggestion for the OKW Luftwaffe doctrine instead of a new commander or revamp for an already existing one for the Ost tho, don't you think?

I was thinking it might replace both Luftwaffe Supply and Close Air Support. We could have 1 good Luftwaffe doctrine instead of 2 mediocre and seldom-used doctrines. It's meant to have a "throw-back to CoH1" feel.

The Falls would have to be toned down to be more like an infiltration unit; the OKW version doesn't really suit the Ostheer. However, this would be offset by the very powerful Support Officer.

CAS could get the officer
Luft support could engineer fall.

My suggestion about fall is that Ostheer get a version of 5-6 entities closer to Paras and OKW get a version closer to infiltration commandos/ST, since currently OKW do not have an access to an infiltration unit.

Or one could redesign them closer to partisan dirty cheap.

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3. Mechanized doctrine (2 changes)
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One of the 2 mechanized commander could actually get access to Panzer J redesigned to be closer to 76mm Sherman.

1) Assault Support doctrine:
Remove fragmentation bombing powerful off map should not be in the same commander with Super heavies.

Replace with counter attack tactics or breakthrough

Replace the artillery officer with a Panzer Officer providing bonus primarily to vehicles.

What if... its "attack heavily defended territory and have replacement infantry if you took heavy loses"?

If you're using it and suiciding your units to trigger it, you're using it wrong.

Its supportive ability that makes you get something out of heavy push even if you failed, not something that makes you stand on your own bundle nades.

That's what they were thinking.

In practice, it's a munitions ability that buys Osttruppen so long as you lose enough models during the time window.

It'd be far more useful and far less counter to the unit-preservation design of the game to have an ability that just gives you Ostruppen.

Sorry for being offtopic but i would like to ask a question: is it hard to create a commander card like you did for luftwaffe suply? I would love to the same but dont know jow to do it. Thx in advance!

Delete 105mm howitzer from german mechanized doctrine is bad idea

I think the idea is more "your guys are going to die anyways, let's try and get something out of it"

I agree with this honestly, I think the ability does fit Lightning War's theme somewhat. The doctrine is about setting up powerful attacks, and when attacking you're guaranteed to lose models. So the ability will allow you to attack more cost effectively by compensating the losses that you take while doing so. Even if Osttruppen are trash mid/late game, that's 1-2 "free" squads you can use to crew weapons or delay the enemy with.

My biggest concern with an ability like this is that it has some communication/readability issues (I don't think it tells you what it does exactly, and it doesn't show a model count when active), but there's nothing that can be done about that.

Also, given how Lighting War is a very strong doctrine (even if not dominating the meta), I don't think it needs any changes. Best to focus efforts on reworking other doctrines.

2) Blizzkrieg Doctrine

Tactical movement
Now also provides "Blitzkrieg Tactics" and "Infantry Awareness" with addition bonus. Sight +10 duration +15 now applies even when stationary.

3)Close air support doctrine

1) Recon, AI strafe move to luft officer that can also increase repair speed with an ability similar to captain.

2) Both AT/AI fire half munition with auto target select and half on path.

3) Fall can be airdropped to field 5-6 men troops with K98 able to upgrade with Lmg34 similar to USF paras (or two faust AT weapons modeled after bazookas).

Relief Infantry doesn't make sense because the doctrine is about breakthrough assaults. In those cases I want to use Stuka CAS to support my push. In most cases, that means I don't have the muni to use relief infantry.

Tactical movement is another one of those bizarre abilities. Would just replace it with assault and hold.

I agree with this honestly, ...

Both rapid conscription and Relief are problematic and rather UP.

I would suggest to increase duration and to provide infatry with target size 1 that can merge but not reinforce so that the user can reinforce his front line unit.

Then one could even lose the whole take casualties first mechanism.

Sorry for being offtopic but i would like to ask a question: is it hard to create a commander card like you did for luftwaffe suply? I would love to the same but dont know jow to do it. Thx in advance!

It's pretty simple really, I go in game end take screenshots of all of the commanders I need to use and then open them up in GIMP 2, from then on just cut and paste and edit the text as needed, that's all.

Also, given how Lighting War is a very strong doctrine (even if not dominating the meta), I don't think it needs any changes. Best to focus efforts on reworking other doctrines.

HI Sander,
appreciate your open words even if i disagree with this judgement. Would be nice if you you could comment the suggested changes to Festung Support / Mechanized and write which wehr doctrines should be reworked in your opinion.
THX in advance!

Both rapid conscription and Relief are problematic and rather UP.

I would suggest to increase duration and to provide infatry with target size 1 that can merge but not reinforce so that the user can reinforce his front line unit.

Then one could even lose the whole take casualties first mechanism.

Both squads that are given via these abilities have got buffs to make them more attractive in the late game unlocked via teching so I don't think it's really an issue of viability, I agree with sander that it's a matter of finding the sweet spot of value/cost/timing.

Ostroppen are always fantastic for team weapons and cheaply holding ground and cons, while initially underwhelming /overpriced imo have never been better in the late game.

A little more utility for ostroppen might be enough but having 6 man lmg infantry that are cheaper than dirt with a snare is fantastic.

Also maybe finding a bit of a passive that attached to the ability might be good too, like cheaper or quicker reinforcement while active to get some value even if lucky (or unlucky?) and don't manage to take enough losses.

Both squads that are given via these abilities have got buffs to make them more attractive in the late game unlocked via teching so I don't think it's really an issue of viability,...

Yet the are unveted squads that might be eventually unwanted and thus the ability no longer useful. By being reinforcement the ability will always be useful.