6 changes to improve Wehrmacht commanders thematically

Wehrmacht's inf. has same problem as soviet's, the para-drop seems to be bugged.

The Luftwaffenunterstützungskommander (Luftwaffe supply commander):

- CP: 251 camouflage
1 CP: infantry camouflage + sprint
2 CP: Luftwaffenpioneer (5men call-in, 5*K98 stats of Füseliere, can build click-me-bomb and mine flaggs) -> can build FlaK20mm, sandbags and wire
3 CP: weapon supply (PaK40, MG34 and some ress.)
12CP: He111 bombing-run

New version:

Looks quite good. I would consider replacing the Officer squad with a late game AT strafe ability though (rocket strafe or simply Stuka CAS), as the commander lacks late game power. Early and mid game would be quite powerful with AT rifles and sandbags for Grens, as well as the weapon drop to skip T2, so I don't think the commander needs an AI squad call-in. It'd probably also be a bit confusing with the Artillery Officer since they'd have to use the same model.

Safe changes to German Mechanized Doctrine to make it good and to help it stand out from other commanders:


- Replaced the LMG Grenadier Sd.Kfz.250 with the regular 250 to make it more affordable and less redundant (you'd probably start with 3-4 Grens with this commander anyway);
- Stuka Smoke Drop kept as it synergises well with mechanized assaults: serving as recon, to smoke up enemy defences during an assault or to cover a retreat;
- Spotting Scopes replaced with Emergency Repairs to help (light) vehicles keep up the momentum;
- LeFH replaced with Combined Arms ability to emphasize the mechanized theme. Could be a copy of the USF one, or it could get some unique buffs.
- Command Panzer IV kept to keep power level in check (mostly because of how powerful the Combined Arms ability is), and because its passive durability buff to all units would synergize quite well with the mechanized combined arms theme.


Changes to Mobile Defense Doctrine. I'm a bit wary to touch this commander, just because the Puma is so damn good for Ostheer, and it risks the commander being used 9/10 matches again. But if we were to take the gamble:


- Puma to T2, no BP3 requirement. Total cost (T1 included) would be 120 fuel, which is now similar to OKW. Should be fine timing wise. Puma now has stock smoke;
- Panzer Tactician replaced with Stuka Smoke Drop to reduce synergy of light vehicles with the Puma;
- Osttruppen Reserves replaced with the Sd.Kfz.251 Mobile Observation Post package as it fits well with the mobile defense theme, as it'd allow you to spot enemy build-ups or assaults early;
- Command Panzer IV replaced with a version of Hold The Line! to further prevent the old Puma into CP4 synergy (beyond the tech requirements for the CP4 already in place) and to give the commander a more unique ability. I considered adding the Panzer 4 ausf.J (in line with the western reinforcements theme) but P4J + Puma would probably instantly make it a top meta pick.


Changes to Festung Support Doctrine:


- Mortar Halftrack replaced with Heavy Fortifications;
- Relief Infantry replaced with a version of the Forward Supply Station (8-10CP). Helps Ostheer with desperately needed mid to late game repairs. Instead of reinforcing and retreating (potentially problematic with Ostheer's heavy support weapon style), the structure can cast a number of defensive abilities. Like the British Forward Observation Post;
- Stuka Smoke Drop, LeFH 18 and Sector Artillery kept as they are all good abilities that fit well with the defensive theme of the commander.


Safe changes to Festung Armor Doctrine:


- Command Panzer IV replaced with Panzer IV Ausf.J in line with the heavier armor theme and to help make this commander more unique compared to Fortified Armor Doctrine;
- Pak 43 replaced replaced with Panzer Commander to help put emphasis on armor and to help make this commander more unique compared to Fortified Armor;
- Railway Artillery replaced with new ability "Defensive Panzer Tactics". Somewhere 5-10 CPs, 60s duration, 120-180 munitions, gives moderate buffs to all vehicles operating in friendly territory to help defend it. Something like +10 sight range, -20% reload, -20% target size;
- Panzer Tactician and Hull Down kept because they are good abilities and in line with the theme. Hull Down may need to be replaced with something else (perhaps keep Pak 43) as it might prove too powerful in combination with the Defensive Panzer Tactics ability.

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Hey Sander,

a big thank you for your commander suggestions! German mechanized and Festung support look really cool; i especially like the idea of the FSS, it would give the doctrine a unique ability that would fit great to the theme without causing too many balance problems.

Im even more impressed with the suggestions for Festung Armor; although i would replace Hull down with the PAK43. I for my part had absolutely no clue how this doctrine could get a thematic "heart and soul" but your suggestions would absolutely nail it!

Mobile Defense looks also very promising, the new interpretation of "Hold the line" could be very interisting. I also think that the power level of the doctrine is fine because you would get the PUMA which is huge in 1vs1.

All 4 commanders would be a lot better than before - i really hope we can get at least some of the ideas in the live version!

Looks quite good. I would consider replacing the Officer squad with a late game AT strafe ability though (rocket strafe or simply Stuka CAS), as the commander lacks late game power.

I'd avoid Stuka loiter, it's already used in so many doctrines. Also feel it would be better to keep all the actual fire support in (reworked) CAS, to make that doctrine feel more unique, while this doctrine sets the focus on supplies.

How about this:
- Replace vet 1 smoke barrage on Luftwaffe Officer with vet 1 Recon Overflight (maybe Recon Pass?).
- Replace Recon Overflight with "For The Fatherland" from Overwatch (infantry have decreased received accuracy in friendly territory for duration of the ability).

Incendiary Run and For The Fatherland will always have some use, even in the late game. If FTFL is too strong, Tactical Movement could also be an option.

Early and mid game would be quite powerful with AT rifles and sandbags for Grens, as well as the weapon drop to skip T2, so I don't think the commander needs an AI squad call-in.

You're right that the early momentum might be a bit too high, I don't want to remove the officer however. The doctrine would lose most of its (potential) uniqueness. You'd no longer see med crates or incendiary run for example.

Perhaps it's better to keep FG42's behind T3 as an upgrade. That way the officer would just be a Gren squad with extra man, but be able to provide med crates to heal and buff infantry, with another supportive ability at vet 1.

It'd probably also be a bit confusing with the Artillery Officer since they'd have to use the same model.

Don't think this is a problem, only the officer model itself would be the same. The squad would have different weapons, a different retinue (Grens or Falls) and an adjusted icon to make it distinct.

Safe changes to Festung Armor Doctrine:

1. Command Panzer IV replaced with Panzer IV Ausf.J in line with the heavier armor theme and to help make this commander more unique compared to Fortified Armor Doctrine;
2. Pak 43 replaced replaced with Panzer Commander to help put emphasis on armor and to help make this commander more unique compared to Fortified Armor;
3. Railway Artillery replaced with new ability "Defensive Panzer Tactics". Somewhere 5-10 CPs, 60s duration, 120-180 munitions, gives moderate buffs to all vehicles operating in friendly territory to help defend it. Something like +10 sight range, -20% reload, -20% target size;
4&5. Panzer Tactician kept Hull Down kept because they are good abilities and in line with the theme. Hull Down may need to be replaced with something else (perhaps keep Pak 43) as it might prove too powerful in combination with the Defensive Panzer Tactics ability.

This is my favorite team game doctrine, so would be cool if it received some love.

1. More J's would be cool to see, excellent tank.

2. Panzer Commander might be just what this doctrine needs.

3. Don't like this idea, it provides too many bonusses if combined with Hull Down and Panzer Commander. Wouldn't like to see it replace Hull Down either. Hull Down is godsend in team games against TD spam, but only available in two overshadowed doctrines. I'd just keep the Pak43. The addition of better P4's and Panzer Commander would allow Hull Down to shine if well used.

4&5. Agreed with keeping Panzer Tactician. You could also replace it with a smoke launcher ability like the Sherman has in order to change things up a bit.

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- Command Panzer IV replaced with Panzer IV Ausf.J in line with the heavier armor theme and to help make this commander more unique compared to Fortified Armor Doctrine;
...

Panzer IV Ausf.J needs a redesign. It offer very little to the Ostheer. It should have the skirt removed and have better penetration instead or access to "AP/Heat/tungsten" round. An can rename it to Panzer IV Ausf. H.

One of the issue PzIV has is it inability to penetrate tank above medium.

Safe changes to German Mechanized Doctrine to make it good and to help it stand out from other commanders:

1. Replaced the LMG Grenadier Sd.Kfz.250 with the regular 250 to make it more affordable and less redundant (you'd probably start with 3-4 Grens with this commander anyway);
2. Stuka Smoke Drop kept as it synergises well with mechanized assaults: serving as recon, to smoke up enemy defences during an assault or to cover a retreat;
3. Spotting Scopes replaced with Emergency Repairs to help (light) vehicles keep up the momentum;
4. LeFH replaced with Combined Arms ability to emphasize the mechanized theme. Could be a copy of the USF one, or it could get some unique buffs.
5. Command Panzer IV kept to keep power level in check (mostly because of how powerful the Combined Arms ability is), and because its passive durability buff to all units would synergize quite well with the mechanized combined arms theme.

1. The regular 250 comes much earlier, you'd be dominating early game with it and still have a strong late game to look forward to. It would be safer to just replace the Grenadiers inside with Panzergrenadiers, so you can fit it more easily into most compositions.

2. Agreed, Smoke Bombs always have a use.

3. I like the addition of Emergency Repairs.

4. Why not keep the Spotting Scopes instead of Combined Arms? Scopes would only be left in 1 teamgame-focused commander otherwise.

5. Instead of Command Panzers, how about adding regular Panzer 4 E's to this doctrine? They'd cost like 100-110 fuel and be buildable once T3 is researched. It would be an interesting addition.

Defensive doctrine:

CP 0 Ostrruppen squad
(with different t4 upgrade)

CP 2 defensive fortifications

CP 5 defensive stance
( replaces Stug-E "assault gun" thematically)
Hull down redesigned. Unit get custom made bonuses.

Casemate locked in place +range + sight radius and faster rotation.

Tanks +range + sight +radius, sandbags damage reduction.


CP 8 Pak 43

CP 8 artillery support

Sector artillery redesign artillery shell replace by mortar shell mu cost down to 160-180 duration increased tracking increased.


Elite troops
CP 0 Elite vehicles crew
Free upgrade that allows Tank crews to disembark and provides the same bonus as armor
(replaces storm troopers)

CP 1 model 24 stun grenades
Now extra damage vs garrison green cover

CP 2 Elite training
For a cost infatry unit can now be upgrade to have 4 vet

(replaces G43 to avoid Tiger ACE/weapon upgrade combo)

CP 2 Panzer tactician

Panzer ACE
A Stug -E can be called in in the field (BP2 requirement) with AT/HE round at vet 1 it can be refit with Stug -G then to Tiger ACE.

Hull Down doesn't need a redesign imo, just a slight rework for assault guns.

Disable Hull Down for Stug and Brummbar and give them an "aimed fire" mode. Once enabled, the unit will gain increased range after 5 seconds of delay, but no damage reduction. Can be deactivated only once range increase is active.

Compare it with 250's defensive stance.

Here's my submission for a new and improved Mobile Defense doctrine.



1) Osttruppen which are available at 0CP and can quickly fill the frontline in a defensive role, in accordance to the theme.
2) Mortar Half trucks, providing indirect fire wherever the opponent pushes, more mobile than stationary mortar teams, in accordance to the theme.
3) Tactical Movement, allowing fast response and repositioning to where the opponent is pushing, in accordance to the theme.
4) Assault Grenadier Reserves, allowing rapid requisition of two shock squads to fill sudden gaps in the army roster and sprint/tac movement to wherever they are needed, in accordance to the theme.
5) Panzer IV command tank, mobile and able to assist in defensive operations, in accordance to the theme.

Changes to Mobile Defense Doctrine.

1. Puma to T2, no BP3 requirement. Total cost (T1 included) would be 120 fuel, which is now similar to OKW. Should be fine timing wise. Puma now has stock smoke;
2. Panzer Tactician replaced with Stuka Smoke Drop to reduce synergy of light vehicles with the Puma;
3. Osttruppen Reserves replaced with the Sd.Kfz.251 Mobile Observation Post package as it fits well with the mobile defense theme, as it'd allow you to spot enemy build-ups or assaults early;
4. Command Panzer IV replaced with a version of Hold The Line! to further prevent the old Puma into CP4 synergy (beyond the tech requirements for the CP4 already in place) and to give the commander a more unique ability. I considered adding the Panzer 4 ausf.J (in line with the western reinforcements theme) but P4J + Puma would probably instantly make it a top meta pick.

1. This would make the problem worse than it was before, the synergy with the flame halftrack would be much too strong. It would be better to make the Puma like the Valentine. A limited 5 CP call-in, if possible with buildtime.

2. Feel the doctrine would lose too much strength without Panzer Tactician. This doctrine is all about skillfully maneuvering flimsy light vehicles to force an early win, that just doesn't work without smoke.

3. Tbh never seen someone make the Observation Post work, might need some adjustments like:
- Squads can't garrison while active.
- Stealth removed.
- Healing aura while active.
- 50% damage reduction while active.
- Flare cost reduced from 60 to 50 munitions (to compensate for short ability range).

4. A defensive ability is definitely a fitting replacement.

Also feel counterattack should be reworked to synergize better with light vehicle play. Just a capping (not even decapping) bonus is not that useful. I think Raid Operations of USF would be a good template.

4. Why not keep the Spotting Scopes instead of Combined Arms? Scopes would only be left in 1 teamgame-focused commander otherwise.

Spotting Scopes are defensive in nature and I do not feel they fit in the more mobile/offensive driven theme of a mechanized commander.

5. Instead of Command Panzers, how about adding regular Panzer 4 E's to this doctrine? They'd cost like 100-110 fuel and be buildable once T3 is researched. It would be an interesting addition.

Panzer IV Ausf.E wouldn't really add anything to Ostheer's arsenal that isn't already covered by the Ostwind and the Panzer IV (and the Command P4 itself). I could only see it working for OKW as they lack a dedicated AI tank (even if the P4J is good vs infantry).

I would love to see some of my ideas incorporated in your fantastic looking commander portraits.

Turns out I actually already made one for the Festung Support doctrine incorporating your Forward Supply Station idea lol:

Didn't see your concept, but I guess great minds think alike.

I got the Luftwaffe Officer idea from Cheatcommands and the Osttruppen supply drop was the best closest thing after the resource drop.

It seems we're going for the same goal by removing the crutch factor from the doctrine (resource drop), decreasing munition intensity and providing new infantry options. I'm guessing you designed this concept before the Fallschirm multi-buff, because I wouldn't add them to any other doctrine in their current state. I kept it at an FG42 upgrade for the Luftwaffe Officer for that reason. What is your idea for the Luftwaffe Officer's role?

Yeah, all of my concepts are months old and are before the balance patch dropped.

Btw do you mind telling me what fonts you are using?

I tried looking up the ones Relic were using but I couldn't find them, yours also are not 1:1 but are closer than mine to the originals lol.

Also damn, looks like I've started a trend here haha.

Spotting Scopes are defensive in nature and I do not feel they fit in the more mobile/offensive driven theme of a mechanized commander.

Don't agree spotting scopes are solely a defensive ability, they can be used to fire & advance, which would be viable again if delay got reduced.

Panzer IV Ausf.E wouldn't really add anything to Ostheer's arsenal that isn't already covered by the Ostwind and the Panzer IV (and the Command P4 itself). I could only see it working for OKW as they lack a dedicated AI tank (even if the P4J is good vs infantry).

Yeah agreed, was just an idea. How about not letting CP4 require command points however? I find it a shame you can't get it as first tank, the bonus isn't even that strong anymore.

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Yeah agreed, was just an idea. How about not letting CP4 require command points however? I find it a shame you can't get it as first tank, the bonus isn't even that strong anymore.

CP PzIV does not need CP requirements at all, if it has tech requirement.

It also need veterancy overhaul and more penetration or different fire modes.

Changes to Festung Support Doctrine:

- Mortar Halftrack replaced with Heavy Fortifications;
- Relief Infantry replaced with a version of the Forward Supply Station (8-10CP). Helps Ostheer with desperately needed mid to late game repairs. Instead of reinforcing and retreating (potentially problematic with Ostheer's heavy support weapon style), the structure can cast a number of defensive abilities. Like the British Forward Observation Post;
- Stuka Smoke Drop, LeFH 18 and Sector Artillery kept as they are all good abilities that fit well with the defensive theme of the commander.

Good ideas. The commander's viability would depend on how well the Forward Supply Point would be implemented.

Only thing I'd change is removing Sector Artillery and just giving the Forward Supply Station all off-maps. This way the Mortar Halftrack could be readded.

Smoke bombs fit, but an alternative ability could also be interesting (like For the Fatherland).

CP PzIV does not need CP requirements at all, if it has tech requirement.

It also need veterancy overhaul and more penetration or different fire modes.

The CP4 requires 7 CP in addition to tech.

For Stug E, this is 5 CP.

These are oddities in the tech revamp patch that should be removed imo.

Here's my submission for a new and improved Joint Operations doctrine.



1) Mechanized personnel carriers that can reinforce squads (and arty) at vet 1 fit the theme of combined arms operations.
2) Artillery Field officier for a variety of helpful abilities, artillery coordination and smoke.
3) Smoke drops for reconnaisance and smoking enemy strongpoints to assist pushes or help save retreating units.
4) LeFH artillery for artillery firepower to support ground forces.
5) Stuka JU87 AT strafe, providing fire support by the Luftwaffe and fitting the theme of coordination of different branches.

Looks quite good. I would consider replacing the Officer squad with a late game AT strafe ability though (rocket strafe or simply Stuka CAS), as the commander lacks late game power. Early and mid game would be quite powerful with AT rifles and sandbags for Grens, as well as the weapon drop to skip T2, so I don't think the commander needs an AI squad call-in. It'd probably also be a bit confusing with the Artillery Officer since they'd have to use the same model.

I like this idea a lot. CAS would be ideal imho.