6 changes to improve Wehrmacht commanders thematically
14 Nov 2019, 01:18 AM
#81
Posts: 888
Wehrmacht is already the second best faction they don't even need any commanders at all to be a viable faction as it is. They've got the best team weapons, really strong infantry, and arguably the best tanks maybe second to OKW.
14 Nov 2019, 19:28 PM
#82
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Love these. Do you plan on making a Mobile Defense concept?
I might, when my head doesn't hurt and I have some actual free time after work lol.
Great work.
Having that said I would rather have Luftwaffe support with more support abilities and less offensive abilities. In other word more Repair/engineer options. Offensive option are better suited for CAS imo.
The Flak HT is very expensive for Ostheer, they already have a great MG and great AI. That is why I suggested the SWS truck.
Yeah I get you, it's just that I already made these about a month or 2 ago anyhow I decided to post em here as food fort thought on possible revamps in the future.
That looks like the Luftwaffe Doctrine from the vCoH's Panzer Elite.
That was my idea when I made it.
Only thing that I couldn't add was the Luftwaffe Ground Forces but I didn't really have any models in mind for such a squad either.
They would have to be either Osttruppen or the Artillery gun models since those are literally the only free models for use that even remotely fit the original squad's role as a support/builder unit.
14 Nov 2019, 19:33 PM
#83
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
I might, when my head doesn't hurt and I have some actual free time after work lol.
Looking forward to your concept!
14 Nov 2019, 19:38 PM
#84
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Looking forward to your concept!
Yeah I'm thinking of incorporating your suggestions actually and just adding the King Tiger in there somewhere lol.
Also might make your Festung Support idea as well.
14 Nov 2019, 20:20 PM
#85
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Wehrmacht is already the second best faction they don't even need any commanders at all to be a viable faction as it is. They've got the best team weapons, really strong infantry, and arguably the best tanks maybe second to OKW.
Nobody said anything about buffs, commander reworks are for flavour/variety, stop policing topics.
14 Nov 2019, 20:28 PM
#86
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
Yeah I'm thinking of incorporating your suggestions actually and just adding the King Tiger in there somewhere lol.
Also might make your Festung Support idea as well.
I would love to see some of my ideas incorporated in your fantastic looking commander portraits.
14 Nov 2019, 21:48 PM
#87
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
I'm not sure if you've seen my concepts for reworks of the OKW and Ost Luftwaffe doctrines but either way here they are:
They look pretty similar to what you're suggesting.
But yeah definitely a Luftwaffe ground forces sort of unit using the Ostheer Artillery crew models could work. 5 man squad that can build and be semi-effective in combat at long range thanks to their rifles.
Another thing I thought about was maybe giving them access to the OKW's Flak HT? Possibilities are (almost) endless and pretty interesting.
Didn't see your concept, but I guess great minds think alike.
I got the Luftwaffe Officer idea from Cheatcommands and the Osttruppen supply drop was the best closest thing after the resource drop.
It seems we're going for the same goal by removing the crutch factor from the doctrine (resource drop), decreasing munition intensity and providing new infantry options. I'm guessing you designed this concept before the Fallschirm multi-buff, because I wouldn't add them to any other doctrine in their current state. I kept it at an FG42 upgrade for the Luftwaffe Officer for that reason. What is your idea for the Luftwaffe Officer's role?
14 Nov 2019, 23:13 PM
#88
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Made some slight adjustments to my Luftwaffe rework concept, now also with image:
Luftwaffe Supply Commander
Luftwaffe Supply Commander
14 Nov 2019, 23:55 PM
#89
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
No Panzerbüchsen please. There would be almost no reason to equip them as Wehrmacht.
15 Nov 2019, 00:06 AM
#90
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Made some slight adjustments to my Luftwaffe rework concept, now also with image:
Luftwaffe Supply Commander
That would probably be the most useless Ostheer commander.
15 Nov 2019, 00:10 AM
#91
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
No Panzerbüchsen please. There would be almost no reason to equip them as Wehrmacht.
It would definitely be good on Pioneers:
- Efficient 200/25 manpower squad.
- 40 range AT weapon on squad with 42 sight.
- Can more easily gain veterancy to speed up repairing.
Their usefulness would drop off as heavier vehicles arrive, but they would still keep their other roles such as laying mines, repairing, constructing, sweeping, etc. Two squads of Pioneers with Panzerbüchsen at 400mp/120mu would be much better at keeping off a light vehicle than a 340mp/100mu Panzergrenadier squad with Schrecks.
15 Nov 2019, 00:47 AM
#92
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
That would probably be the most useless Ostheer commander.
Thank you for the feedback. The commander is meant to gain early momentum with a combination of tools for infantry (sandbags, med kits, elite squad) and plentiful AT against light vehicles (AT-rifle squads, AT gun drop). Possibly quite good if rushing T3. I think the concept could work, but some things might have to be shuffled around.
How about the following changes:
- Prepared Defenses changed to Entrenchment Tools (no Flak, but 1 CP earlier and adds trenches).
- AT-rifles become an exclusive upgrade for Pioneers (easier to balance).
- Luftwaffe Officer orders a single Luftwaffe med crate for 10 munitions (instead of 3 for 30).
- Luftwaffe Officer incendiary strike becomes available at T3 tech (from T4 tech).
- Luftwaffe Officer gets the two FG42's for free at deployment (instead of paying 60 muni).
Would that make it tempting enough to go for?
15 Nov 2019, 00:54 AM
#93
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Thank you for the feedback. The commander is meant to gain early momentum with a combination of tools for infantry (sandbags, med kits, elite squad) and plentiful AT against light vehicles (AT-rifle squads, AT gun drop). Possibly quite good if rushing T3. I think the concept could work, but some things might have to be shuffled around.
How about the following changes:
- Prepared Defenses changed to Entrenchment Tools (no Flak, but 1 CP earlier and adds trenches).
- AT-rifles become an exclusive upgrade for Pioneers (easier to balance).
- Luftwaffe Officer orders a single Luftwaffe med crate for 10 munitions (instead of 3 for 30).
- Luftwaffe Officer incendiary strike becomes available at T3 tech (from T4 tech).
- Luftwaffe Officer gets the two FG42's for free at deployment (instead of paying 60 muni).
Would that make it tempting enough to go for?
Entrenching tools are in Osttruppen doctrines, which also give you 0CP infantry.
AT rifles require 120muni for a squad to kinda damage a LV, the price of 2 Tellers. Locks out flamer if I’m not mistaken.
Med crate is useless since 251 is meta and heals.
Incendiary strike is a pretty bad ability.
5man squad with 2 fg42s is good.
So basically you get the doctrine for 2 out of 5 Osttrupen doc abilities and a good command squad. Very meh imo and definitely one of the weakest Ostheer commanders.
For comparison, Mechanized Assault gives you:
0CP Assault infantry
2CP Pgrens and clown car
5CP Anti-sim city Stugie
7CP Light arty for countering stationary targets
9CP Tiger
15 Nov 2019, 01:17 AM
#94
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Luftwaffe Supply Commander
Recon overflight can easily be move Officer as an ability.
Supply drop can also have the AT rifles if you want, the MG should be replaced by a mortar, there is no reason for an MG34 drop when M42 is available from T0.
Medical kits can be dropped from buildings or vehicles.
Now you can add a "repair support pioneers" from Heavy armor doctrine or Forward supply station from urban assault doctrine, or SWS trucks.
15 Nov 2019, 01:38 AM
#95
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Recon overflight can easily be move Officer as an ability.
Considered it, but the Officer already offers 2 previously doctrinal abilities without them taking commander slots, while being a potent squad itself. Also, not being able to call recon wherever you want limits usefulness in team games.
Supply drop can also have the AT rifles if you want
Would come too late and in too few numbers to be a distinctive feature of the commander.
the MG should be replaced by a mortar, there is no reason for an MG34 drop when M42 is available from T0.
The dropped MG34 can be improved with a better crew. Pioneers offer 42 sight and 1 target size over the 35 sight and 1,25 target size for normal crews. The deal is also not too bad:
400 + 8*25 = 600 manpower for MG34 with better crew, Pak40, 10 fuel and 25 munitions.
260 + 320 = 580 manpower for MG42, Pak40. T2 requirement.
Mortar can't be improved with crew and is kind of redundant, unless the drop is made much cheaper.
Now you can add a "repair support pioneers" from Heavy armor doctrine or Forward supply station from urban assault doctrine, or SWS trucks.
Doesn't fit the doctrine imo. It would be better to keep this idea in mind for a Festung Support
rework.
It's also not that needed, because the AT-rifles makes getting multiple Pio's useful and would allow them to gain veterancy easily.
15 Nov 2019, 01:46 AM
#96
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
New version:
Listened to Vipper and changed MG34 in the drop to mortar and changed cost, mostly to differentiate commander from Osttruppen Doctrine.
AT-rifles changed from crate to upgrade, because it wouldn't be worth it on Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers.
Listened to Vipper and changed MG34 in the drop to mortar and changed cost, mostly to differentiate commander from Osttruppen Doctrine.
AT-rifles changed from crate to upgrade, because it wouldn't be worth it on Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers.
15 Nov 2019, 09:50 AM
#97
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Considered it, but the Officer already offers 2 previously doctrinal abilities without them taking commander slots, while being a potent squad itself. Also, not being able to call recon wherever you want limits usefulness in team games.
..
First of all thanks for taking the time to read my post.
Recon can replace smoke which is less useful especially with a "free" mortar.
You can now add an aerial or some structure similar to soviet paras that can call in medic kit or air support.
15 Nov 2019, 10:20 AM
#98
Posts: 1351
Made some slight adjustments to my Luftwaffe rework concept, now also with image:
Luftwaffe Supply Commander
A nice one - allies will cry I'm afraid
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
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15 Nov 2019, 10:24 AM
#99
Posts: 1351
That would probably be the most useless Ostheer commander.
If you equip panzerbushe onto pios it will be great. A sweeper pio supporting a tank plus helping fend off other vehicles is a powerful mixture. There are many more ways to use them imo.
Edit: the replay was meant for Farlion, sorry.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
15 Nov 2019, 10:31 AM
#100
Posts: 1351
No Panzerbüchsen please. There would be almost no reason to equip them as Wehrmacht.
If you equip panzerbushe onto pios it will be great. A sweeper pio supporting a tank plus helping fend off other vehicles is a powerful mixture. There are many more ways to use them imo.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
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