120mm mortars underperform!

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 12:41 PMmrgame2

Stop trying to buff allies unit, they are mostly in good spot already. The 120mm should not get pop or resource reduction imo. Vipper mentioned what i wanted to say about the 1 man retreat too. The 120mm is where it is now, because it is good already, good to use if needed to explosive damage.

It will be a nightmare in 4v4 if this unit get spam when it becomes cheaper and more survivable.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 12:41 PMmrgame2

Stop trying to buff allies unit, they are mostly in good spot already. The 120mm should not get pop or resource reduction imo. Vipper mentioned what i wanted to say about the 1 man retreat too. The 120mm is where it is now, because it is good already, good to use if needed to explosive damage.

It will be a nightmare in 4v4 if this unit get spam when it becomes cheaper and more survivable.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 14:55 PMVipper

In numbers pm-82 vs Hm-38:
Autofire
ROF: 11.25 VS 13.02
AOE according to cruzz 17.43 vs 31.78
Range 80 vs 100

Barrage:
ROF: 6.95 VS 8.4
AOE according to cruzz 23.66 vs 40.42
Range 80 vs 100

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 14:55 PMVipper

In numbers pm-82 vs Hm-38:
Autofire
ROF: 11.25 VS 13.02
AOE according to cruzz 17.43 vs 31.78
Range 80 vs 100

Barrage:
ROF: 6.95 VS 8.4
AOE according to cruzz 23.66 vs 40.42
Range 80 vs 100

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 15:29 PMKatitof

Last time I've checked, they didn't had identical scatter, so why aren't you including it on the list of differences?

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 15:29 PMKatitof

Scatter is single most important stat for any indirect weapon.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 15:29 PMKatitof

Last time I've checked, they didn't had identical scatter, so why aren't you including it on the list of differences?
Scatter is single most important stat for any indirect weapon.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 15:09 PMJibberJabberJobber

Don't forget the long setup times and long ready aim time for the 120mm, it makes it quite bad when autofiring (lots of repositioning) compared to the swift 82mm.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2

I dont see it use in 2v2 often. When it got used, it is probably by a team with predefined cheese strat. Hence any buff it gets in surivability and costs is going to intro cheese in 1v1 or even 2v2. Unless you are ok to trade its explosive damage and range for other buffs.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 14:55 PMVipper

snip

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 18:39 PMelchino7

Do you know what the AoE number on the graph represents? Average damage done based on total AoE?

I never used it cause no one knows exactly what it is.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 12:41 PMmrgame2

Stop trying to buff allies unit, they are mostly in good spot already.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 17:56 PMRaviloli

If you specifically need a cheese strat to viably use that unit, doesn't that kind of prove that said unit is UP?

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 18:43 PMVipper

Unfortunately no, I have not seen any explanation from Cruzz and it rather hard to guess.

Given thou that the number increases with lower scatter values it seem that takes that into account also...

Maybe average damage divided by average scatter area?

Imo would have to find the ratio of scatter area and AOE if one wanted to express accuracy for indirect fire weapons, so maybe that is waht Cruzz has done.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 19:14 PMmrgame2

I played 2v2 where one sov just transition midway into 120mm, dushka, su85 and reinforce ht. Totally lock out a sector. Dushka with its high mobility gets to cap and defend. Su86 disable any AI tanks to clear dushka, and the 120mm to kill any ATG or capping infantry.

Jump back to quoted post27 Oct 2019, 23:02 PMRaviloli

And you couldn't outflank one dushka that had basically no infantry support? even though the dushka has one of the narrowest cones of fire in the game? No wonder you lose Panthers to AECs, likewise, a single SU-85 with no infantry to snare for it means free real estate, just flank the bloody thing, it's turretless.

"oh, but he does have infantry, and I just haven't bothered to mention them!" Well, then he's using combined arms, and you apparently are not. Zone the 120mm out, it'll lose vs any other mortar in the game, so just duel it into submission. I've already mentioned the Dushka's narrow cone of fire. (oh by the way, you're getting your ass kicked by an off-meta commander if he has both of those, good job.) And actually try using your entire infantry force to attack him, but I don't mean blob and A-move in front of his MG. Overwhelm him with micro, he's on the defensive, it's only natural he'll have the advantage.