What is that supposed to mean? Kittens = Tiger, Tiger B, Panther
Only the Tiger ace and the Tiger B are strong.
Panthers barely handle T-34/85s, lose to them if not properly used and suck versus infantry. Previous patches showed how useless it is with even slight nerfs. Touch that thing and you destroy Ostheer.
Tigers are good versus infantry but are only mediocre versus armor. Constant nerfs to its health lead to it being not very survivable. Will most likely lose to an IS-2. No nerfs needed.
Have to fight 60range, 240 damage, Jacksons.
How are Kittens OP again? In fact Panther and Tiger are at one of their weakest states ever in this game.
I bet they ment little kittens, not the 50 ton cats :> |
Finns and Soviets. 
Would be cool. Too bad it's even earlier than africa korps... They started to create early war factions in ToW, they should give them automatch and add few new factions. That way we could also get france, japan, italy, maybe even grece, early british forces, the fun could never end. But they have chosen to pick late war timing when most countries are already defeated or use anachronic equipment. |
ok, i will go for airborne every time i see okw t4.
HOW RETARDED IS THAT
It should be stock army fights stock army equally well, commanders provide specific, non essential bonuses
Not every time, there are different ways to deal with it in different commanders, you just need at least one of them in the leadout, but you can change your leadouts between games. |
It shouldn't require doctrine based abilities or units to COUNTER STOCK ONES!
Why is this so hard for people to understand? Needing a doctrine just to counter something stock is horrible game design and places way to much emphasis on doctrine! I get so tired of reading people arguing doctrine based units/abilities to counter stock units as balance. Its ok to make a recommendation to help counter something, but try to use that as a point of balance?
NO!
You choose a commander to counter not only enemy commander but also his playstyle and even his faction or map you play on. For exaple when you encounter usf as ostheer in 1v1 it may be wise to go CAS to counter early riflespam. Rifles are nondoc, you choose a doctrine to counter basic infantry of a faction. And it's quite common, there are many more examples of it. |
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I feel like it's more kind of meta problem than anything else. All allied meta commanders have basically no doctrinal arty apart from flame/phosphorus barrage that does noting to trucks. I mean I now why ppl choose those commanders but they should not be surprised that they pay for getting usefull callins with unability to counter other things like trucks for example. Outmap arty can reliably take 80% of that building in one damage so you could kill it with 2-3 shots from any medium tank or atgun and onmap arty also easily kills it once it hits pios that try to repair it. |
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Yeah it happened to me just after wfa came out. I didn't know then that it was a jackson but I used shitton of jacksons in that game (it was 4v4) so it's possible. |
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There is one sure thing about what OP has written. OKW lacks indirect fire. I mean nerfs to obers/manpower/anything relics comes up with should come but the faction just lacks it.
There is no need to argue that no other faction has non-doc arty, no other also has non-doc heavy tank. Just that kind of faction.
It shouldn't get static arty but mobile one. For example ISG should be replaced by nebelwerfer that could be hauled by crew like ISG. It would just do the job of a mortar and rocket artilery with barrage and smoke abilities but it should be the weakest rocket artilery, mainly because of calliber and only 6 shots, some kind like katyusha normal barrage but only one, or slightly bigger one.
As for other tiers stuka can be replaced with Wespe and sturmtiger with Hummel in their tiers. Those mobile artilery pieces should need to manually reload after every barrage with crit chance like sturmtiger does and should not be able to move until they end their barrage when first shot fires. They can have some unique abilities, different range and firepower not to make them too similar.
All three proposed artillery pieces were extensively used in the battle of the bulge, more than units that exist in the game right now.
All three removed units should, in my opinion, be moved to some new commanders as okw lacks them without changing their performance. |
Against a good player you will always need to be burning MP to keep up against the allied infantry horde. If you are god tier at micro I can see you getting away with allowing a massive float, but in your first few engagements as OKW your almost always at a disadvantage due to Volks being worst baseline infantry in the game.
If MP income was nerfed, Volks/Sturms/and the Kubel would need to be better to compensate.
Sure there are players that you cannot beat without using that spare mp. They are simply better. That goes the same with me and every other player, you cannot beat everyone and if you can beat better player there is sth wrong with ballance. And that's the case here.
I understand what you mean about super early game, it may became unplayable after the change. Thats why I suggested increase in upkeep cost of okw squads. That way the change will not affect okw early on but the effect will take the float (or spam) out of them later on.
That solution is better than compensation with the strenght of sturms and volks as such making them stronger will also make them even stronger with vet 5. |
It is working as planned, the early game doesn't need to be weaker. I fail to see how making OKW impossible to play fixes any issues.
From replays, streams and my own experience I know that it is quite common for okw to float manpower in late early game and early mid game just to build obers asap when flaktruck is set up. And even while floating okw players don't seem to struggle against allies.
That basically means two things: That okw can live without that spare manpower and that taking it will make the arrival of obers later. Both are good for the ballance. |
I'm sorry dude but I can't even tell what your trying to say. But the be all and end all of it is that OKW early game is already pretty anemic and we don't need a stupid MP penalty on top of that making it even worse.
What I wanted to say is that there are three ways of ballancing okw. First is to weaken it's early game and make it worked as planned by designers. The others are to make a huge overhaul of all factions (as you suggest) or change almost everything in that faction (like I said in last post).
So I guess I'm not misteaken to say that the first one is the easiest to do and the most probable to happen even if it makes axis faction strong in late game and allied factions strong in early game. |
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